Vedanta Psychology-part 2

February 16, 2009

Maharaja: So then going back, so then we are establishing that the mind is real, which is a very important element. Because the tendency is to, due to the impersonal contamination, then we will consider that it’s illusion, and so therefore nothing that we have to deal with. But the problem is what we are dealing with everything is reality. The only illusion we don’t know that, that whatever we see, whatever we are dealing with is Krsna. So because of this, then we are in illusion that it’s not. That’s actually the essential point. Krsna very, very clearly is bringing out here that actually He is everything that there is in the creation, He Himself and His internal potency. So the illusory element is that we think it is not Krsna and His internal potency. And because of this, then she manifests as the external potency and we are then conditioned. It’s basically that simple.

We don’t necessarily like to look at it that simply, because we like to put ourselves in the prominent position, so therefore our illusion becomes the main element. But actually it’s not the main element. The main element is Krsna and His interaction with His potencies. But we establish that we are the center. That’s why we make it so big and so insurmountable and all these different things. It is insurmountable, not because it’s not something you get over, because it’s already Krsna. The problem is, we make our conditioned situation more important than it actually is. It has no importance, but we make it important. This is actually the difficulty. This is the cause of the material contamination.

So then we find here the Hamsa-avatara in answering the question of the Kumaras, He has not pointed out that He is everything, means the Lord is everything, and because of this, then if you can identify with this, then everything works. He is saying in the Eleventh Canto:

Within this world, whatever is perceived by the mind, speech, eyes or other senses is Me alone and nothing besides Me. All of you please understand this by a straightforward analysis of the facts.

It’s just straight, means there isn’t something else. That’s page 33. There is nothing else. The problem is, we think there is something else, there is Krsna and all that, then there is me and my maya. We are very attached to our maya, we keep it very comfortably situated. Because Krsna mentions in the Gita that self-realization only takes one moment. That’s all it requires is a moment of just understanding it, doing it. A moment is always used, it’s 1/11 of a second, that is the space of time that the mind can actually perceive. Shorter than that we don’t perceive, so it’s not important. So 1/11 of a second is actually what we deal with in a moment of analyzing, digesting, and acting upon anything that we are dealing with. Someone is, we would say, unconscious or unaware, they are not dealing in the moment, therefore they knock things over, they say stupid things, they do stupid things. Someone who is working with the moment is dealing with that 1/11 of a second, they don’t do stupid stuff, or at least not intentionally.

So that is the amount of time it takes to become perfect in Krsna consciousness. But because we make our conditioned state more important than it actually is, therefore then Krsna says, follow sadhana-bhakti. Because He is the creation, we are absorbed in the creation, and then we think that our control of this is something else. This is the difficulty, Krsna is the creation. He is everything here between Himself and His internal potency. He mentions here then where He is describing about His internal potency.

Where is that? This is the one nice thing about the sastras, that you can never get control of the sastra. Means the quote can be right in front of you and you can’t see it unless Krsna allows you to. Oh, here we go.

So this is now Bhagavatam Eleventh Canto and Sixth Canto, this is page 41:
Although thus not existing in reality, this manifestation of transformations created from the mode of passion appears real because the self-manifested, self-luminous Absolute Truth exhibits Himself in the form of the material variety of the senses, the sense objects, the mind and the elements of physical nature.
Then further from Sixth Canto:

Mother Lakñmé, who is here, is the reservoir of all spiritual qualities, whereas You manifest and enjoy all these qualities. Indeed, You are actually the enjoyer of everything. You live as the Supersoul of all living entities, and the goddess of fortune is the form of their bodies, senses and minds. She also has a holy name and form, whereas You are the support of all such names and forms and the cause for their manifestation.

Then next verse, 6.19:

My Lord, You are the master of energy, and therefore You are the Supreme Person. You are sacrifice [yajïa] personified. Lakñmé, the embodiment of spiritual activities, is the original form of worship offered unto You, whereas You are the enjoyer of all sacrifices.

So here we are dealing with this element of the illusion. But because the illusion is what we identify with, we take that as the solid position as opposed to the position that there is no actual illusion, it’s all Krsna. The illusion is we think it is something different. Prabhupada gives the definition, maya that which it’s not. It’s actually Krsna, we think it’s not Krsna.

Because we could say, this column, but we’ll just say, oh, that’s just bricks. It’s just bricks, but the reason it’s a column is not because of the brick and mortar, it’s because of Krsna’s potency that holds it up. So factually the column is Krsna. And through His internal potency, then it manifests the form of bricks and mortar and whatever else there is. And Krsna is therefore the enjoyer of that.
So that’s the reality. The illusion is we think it’s not. Why would we think it’s like that? Because we want to be that. We want to be Krsna. So therefore this material energy which is the field of activities, we identify we are the enjoyer of it. Whatever you see, the variety, that is actually Laksmi, she manifests that. Because variety is coming from the feminine nature. It’s coming from that, so whatever we see is her. But we think we are God, we are the enjoyer of Laksmi. Therefore the illusion is there and she transforms into material energy. So therefore we see what we call just the mundane world.

But the idea is, Hamsa-avatara is pointing out, this concept, that we have this mind and how do we overcome it and that, is an illusion, it’s a useless question. Because He is making the point that this doesn’t exist in the first place. Your idea that you are the mind, that you are the elements of the field of action, that’s the illusion. Why do we think like that? Because we think we are God. Because God is the one who is the Lord who is all these things. So wanting to take His position, therefore we identify with that which is actually Krsna.

So this is the trick that is going on. So factually it is not a matter of wrestling with the mind, it’s a matter of understanding what the mind is doing, what’s going on. We think, ok, here is the mind, then there is us, then we have to fight with it. It’s presented that way in sastra. Why? Because that’s the way we think. So the idea is then it’s not actually a matter of wrestling with the mind, it’s a matter of understanding what’s the process going on.

In the platform of pure consciousness then one is able to pervade all levels of existence. But if one is not in pure consciousness, then one will be in the wakeful state which is controlled by goodness, one will be in the dreaming state which is controlled by passion, or one will be in the undreaming state which is controlled by ignorance. But pure consciousness pervades all these. So one can be fully Krsna conscious in all these states. But because we are not working on the platform of pure consciousness then we are affected by the modes. And as long as we are affected by the modes then the illusion goes on.

So then the idea that what is being brought out here, it is a transference of consciousness, that the living entity is thinking, I am the controller and enjoyer. So therefore whatever is here and activities that are performed are for my pleasure. So what are we saying in Krsna consciousness? We are not actually saying anything different. Perfection is non-different than this, it’s just the identification of who is this I and mine changes, but the field remains the same.
Here this point, you are sacrifice and Laksmi is the embodiment of spiritual activities. So all things here are a manifestation of Laksmi, all activities are a manifestation of Laksmi. That means she is the spiritual activities, and He is the sacrifice. So that means all the activities in everything you see is supposed to be engaged in the Lord’s service because that’s what’s going on, that’s what Laksmi is doing.

Means she is the column is worshiping the Lord. But we think this column is for us to enjoy, therefore now it’s part of our building, and it’s my building. But actually she is serving the Lord in this aspect as a potency. So that means everything that’s there is actually sacrifice to the Lord for His enjoyment, that’s what Laksmi is doing. But we take the position of Visnu and think I am the enjoyer of all that I see. That’s what’s going on, that’s the illusion.
So if we change this illusion to the point of I am the servant of the servant of the Lord, this gopé-bhartuù pada-kamalayor, then this all stops, the illusion stops. The illusion exists simply because we are very dogmatic, or very fanatic, about being the Lord. This is the problem.

So in here we see actually this fight is something very different, because we think we are fighting with what’s ours. But it’s not ours. If it’s not ours, there is no fight. It’s just a matter of becoming conscious. Being always absorbed in situations and activities that will keep us conscious. It’s not actually a fight. The fight is with ourself that we simply want this. Otherwise it’s too easy to then put it on someone else. That is the standard in world religion. And within the Vaisnava philosophy we also have that aspect because it is common. But as we go deeper that’s not the actual.

That means this concept that there is someone else that I am fighting with that’s actually generated from us. So world religion you always have the devil, Satan, something like that. Bengali, saitan that’s the word is coming from, saitan means like a really nasty person, like a dacoit, they are saitans. So then that same principle has then been applied, there is this person who comes in, just overwhelms us, controls us, we have no…what can we do? And so there is this whole fight in which we are naturally the loser.

But in actuality it’s just a matter of do we want to be involved in that or not? We do, then yes, there is the fight and you have to, like this. But the actual point is, Krsna says, armed with a sword of knowledge you fight. So when we understand I am servant of Krsna and all that is here is Krsna, that is the fight. Not just some, control the senses, grip your teeth and like this and this is how we get ourself through. It’s never really worked in the past. So it’s a very, very different kind of perspective. It’s not something that we haven’t heard about, it’s just different than how we think.

So the whole idea of the Vedic psychology is you are changing your perspective of everything that you are dealing with. It doesn’t mean any activity changes, it doesn’t mean any situation changes. It means how you view it changes. That’s why Prabhupada says, you don’t have to change your position to take up Krsna consciousness, you simply have to change the mentality. Mentality changes, then everything starts to work.

So this is the simple point, it’s very important to note that Krsna is the enjoyer of the spiritual activity, so our position is to assist in His enjoyment. So that puts us in a very unique position. Because we are assistants to the subject by being assisting in the activities of the verb, but at the same time, our relationship with the Lord is in relationship to the object. Because the activity is being performed of the Lord is being performed towards the object. So we assist the object in its service to the Lord. In other words, everything we see is Laksmi’s service to the Lord, all activities are Laksmi’s service to the Lord. So we are assisting in the Lord’s enjoying all what is seen and all what is done, but we do that as assistants to what is seen and what is done. This is the tatastha position.

Devotee (1): Maharaja, just to put it in perspective from the more refined side of the personal aspect, particularly because I am polluted with my ego…When I am building something or let’s say Krsna is… Krsna is the source, He contains that. But when I am working I don’t recognize…therefore when I build this building how I interact with it according to it belongs to these individuals and not just Krsna, the source of my intelligence, then how effective I am in order to…
Maharaja: Means how to be Krsna conscious when building the building? Ok.
There is all these different levels, that’s what’s so perfect about the Vedas, there is a level for every kind of understanding. The basic overall is I am building this building to please Krsna, because the building will be used for activities for Krsna. So as long as then once the building is built I use the building for Krsna, then the building process, even I am still in illusion about it, it’s still connected to Krsna, I get the spiritual benefit, and so I will progress in my Krsna consciousness. But as Krsna conscious meaning being fully conscious then that full benefit I didn’t get at the time, but I will get now after this as starting to my next activities will be more conscious.

Or now to take it a step further, then we bring in, ok, that’s the simple thing, that’s the just the results of everything give to Krsna. Because when the subject acts upon the object, there’ll be a result. But that result is Krsna’s, not ours. Because we are part of the process, the verb then could claim the result, the dative, because it actually did the work. But the result belongs to the subject, not to the instrument. This is the difficulty. We as the instrument in the activity of the verb, we claim the dative, or the result, as ours, when it’s actually it’s Krsna’s, it’s the subject’s. So the subject is acting on the object. So that means the Lord and His potencies that’s all that’s interacting. We can assist in that. We falsely claim the result.

So the first step is give up this claim over result. So whatever we do just the result is what we should be focused on and that should be given to Krsna. And that works very nicely, it purifies the process, though in the process itself we may not be pure, but because the goal is pure, therefore the whole process is purified. Means we only act after we have a goal in mind. We have an identity, so if we think I am servant of Krsna, I want to please Krsna, so the result is for Krsna, even if we are not so conscious during the activity, the activity is in pursuance of that goal, because first comes thinking, then feeling, so you go from sambandha, prayojana. Then if that’s in place, then the abhideya will be spiritual, even though we may not be conscious of the mechanics of it.

So that’s the first stage. So that then is what everybody can be involved in. And that’s good and it’s perfect. But if we are going to say that that’s it, then Hamsa-avatara is going to say, then you are a fool. Because He is already calling the Kumaras a fool, and they are liberated souls. Because they are presenting this field of activities of being more important than it is, that it’s there is the mind and there is the senses, the mind is entering the senses by seeing everything, and then when it finds something interesting, then the senses enter the mind. So how do we break this, because this combination of the senses and mind is what causes material conditioning, which is true.

But at the same time, He is pointing out, you are taking this as the prominent element. No. It’s Krsna consciousness is the prominent element. Understanding that the mind and the senses, their combination, if we connect that to Krsna, that’s the never forget Krsna part. But the most important of these two is always remember. So that you are trying to see everything in relationship to the Lord, that’s the actual Krsna conscious platform.
So that’s why when we start with this simplest form, the result’s for Krsna, we are just thinking of Krsna and the things done for Him. So even though it’s in a very simple form, it’s actually connected with the ultimate aspect. So now as we are simple this will work very nicely. The difficulty comes as we become more sophisticated in Krsna consciousness.
In the beginning we joined, it doesn’t matter how sophisticated you were before joining, we you joined you will be very simple. But as we become comfortable in spiritual life, then the tendency is your natural sophistication, in other words, what is your conditioned nature, what are the elements of it, will naturally start to become manifest, not in a bad way necessarily, but it just means now in practice you can engage more elements of body, mind, and words. So sophisticated will develop.
Now the problem is in developing this sophistication do you connect that sophistication to Krsna or not? Because the very sophisticated person to use the very simple thing, well, it’s just, the result’s for Krsna, it’s all for Krsna. That’s nice. But how much of their results in all the activities they are doing are connected to Krsna? That’s where then the problem comes in.
The new devotee all he does is chant, take prasada, and wash pots. That’s it. There is nothing else in his mind. So therefore it works very nicely. But as now his job and his car, and whether we buy the Ferrari or the Lamborghini, that then is sophistication. How is that connected to Krsna? And just say, oh, the results are for Krsna. He says, you don’t drive a Ferrari down the road at 200km/h and call it for Krsna, unless you got a really important meeting that you got to be there in five minutes, then it’s for Krsna. No, this is for your mundane sophistication. How are you connecting that to Krsna? Not that it can’t be. That’s fine. But it has to be connected.
So now this is where then Hamsa-avatara is saying, now you are an idiot. Because now you are simplifying things and putting yourself as the center, when it’s not you as the center, it’s Krsna is the center. Therefore then the Vedic literatures give outs for that, which the Western culture does not give at all. So this is there is a difference. It’s not that it’s a modern age, so modern culture, Vedic culture, I am not sure. No. Vedic culture is always superior at all times, all places, all circumstances. The modern is something you can start with.
So then the Vedic comes in, now as I become more sophisticated I am worried, I am not just, ok, well what do we build? Yeah, just build something, get a contract we want to build this building. What do you want it for? We want to do this and that. Ok, you can do these designs like here is some buildings. Oh, yeah, that’s great. They’ll come up with a blueprint, you look at it. Ok, fine, and then like that, because you don’t care. So then it’s the result is just for Krsna.
But when you go, no, I have to have this kind of column and this kind of this and this kind of look and the vernacular you get, that means then who is that for? Why that vernacular? Who is it for? What does it matter? If the result is the building is used for Krsna, what do you care what it looks like? But you do care. So that means how are you connecting that?

Then the Vedic gives therefore then you have the vastu-sastra, the Stapana Veda, which then explains how a building should look, how to decide. So you want to be sophisticated, you want to get into detail, now here are details you can choose from that Krsna likes. Otherwise the other, build whatever building you like, it’s used for Krsna, that’s what Krsna is worried about how it’s used for Him. But if you want to get into detail, since the building technically is Laksmi, He likes Laksmi to look a certain way. So therefore the vastu-sastra is there, that you can take part in her service to Krsna. So therefore then the building is built with certain considerations. Then that’s taking it to another level, where you are then engaging now your pious mentality in Krsna’s service.
Then another level beyond that is then you are dealing with how does it work, why does it work, the vastu works that way, why are things built, and so therefore you are seeing that they are built because it’s correct according to the interaction of the energies. You can’t put something improper, you are putting the energy of the weight against the energy of the strength, and so if you don’t balance that, the building won’t stand up. So therefore you are seeing that the building is built nicely. So it’s according to vastu. But now you are worrying about its actual building, you are dealing in the moment. Because vastu that’s a concept, it will be like this, we use these things, but they are still very generic. But now we get into the moment that we are dealing with building this building and we are seeing that it’s going nicely, so we are seeing it’s going nicely for Krsna, because it’s Krsna’s energies.
Then you can take it further, the thing is if it’s Krsna’s energy then the building and the building is Krsna and His energies interacting. So therefore those bricks, that mortar, everything that’s there is Laksmi, that has to be nicely engaged in Krsna’s service, so therefore she would do it in this nice way. So you’re seeing that it’s being built properly is assisting in Laksmi’s service to Krsna as the enjoyer of the building.
So it goes from being personal but in a very simple way, to becoming sophisticated but in a pious way, to becoming more sophisticated in from karma to jnana, and then from there into bhakti. So all these different levels can be used. But because they are all engaged in Krsna’s service they are all devotion, they are all bhakti. But it’s just better of technically how much the mind is, how you identify.
So we are saying here at this last point of seeing that it’s all Krsna’s, so I am just an instrument in Radha and Krsna’s interaction, or here Laksmi and Narayana’s interaction, and so therefore my assisting in the building of the building is seen to all details because the detail, the variety is Laksmi. Variety is not me. Variety is Laksmi. The enjoyer is not me. The enjoyer is Krsna. So therefore even one can be a paramahamsa laying bricks.
Devotee (1): So therefore so you mentioned to take it to another level and also starting from the conception of the tatastha, the tata is thinking I have these energies, they belong to me, I manipulate them, no conscious. Through all this analysis intellectually we can accommodate things from the sastras on the practice of devotional service and so forth. So the real at the end is the person, would you say that that person would be considered a paramahamsa at the moment that he releases that control of those energies in his consciousness, consciously working on the favor of the generator of the mind and the intelligence. But then the next question is, does the soul have a mind?
Maharaja: Does the soul have a mind? Yes. So that’s why Prabhupada always makes the point, he doesn’t say, now and again he’ll say the mind once it’s introduced, but generally he’ll say the materialistic mind. Because the natural mind is when we are servant of Krsna. So having a mind, having an ego, having intelligence, having a body, that’s the natural state of the soul. So the impersonal idea is we have a body, mind, and everything here, so spiritual must mean we don’t have that. Which is true, we don’t have the material, but we do have the spiritual. So they throw it out. So there is the idea if I ignore the mind, get rid of the mind, then I am spiritual.

But technically then Prabhupada points out, it’s when we identify as servant of Krsna, at that point we are liberated. That’s the liberated platform. Conditioned is I am the controller and enjoyer. Liberated is I am servant of Krsna. So liberation is actually that easy. The jnanis make it into a big thing, because that’s their value. Means the female nature is, nothing is unless it’s rare it’s not important. So because liberation for them is their value, therefore they have to make it very rare and very difficult. But it is as simple as identifying as I am servant of Krsna and acting in that platform, you are liberated. Because the rare thing is Krsna and that service. That’s the actual rare thing. But the liberation for the devotee that’s a side point. It’s like, if we are going to service you a lunch, you’ll get a plate along with it. But the jnanis are sitting there making a whole sadhana over getting a plate. No, all you have to do is, get the meal, the plate comes with it.
So this simply then in practical terms then means that whatever one is doing in one’s life, let’s say, you are cleaning your own house, so one can do it that the clean house is for Krsna, therefore inviting over Vaisnavas and having programs, or living in a sattvika environment is good for Krsna consciousness, so that works. So if that’s all we are thinking, that’s great. But if we are getting into more detail than that, then we have to be able to connect it.
Then the point is the house is clean because that’s what sastra says, if you are not in the mode of goodness then how are you going to perform your service nicely. It’s very hard from passion and ignorance, not that you can’t do devotion from that platform, it’s just more difficult, there is more clouding. So goodness is recommended. So cleanliness therefore is very important, therefore your house must be clean. But at the same time in here, then we can take it further, the house is clean, therefore I am never contaminated, therefore I can always be engaged in deity worship and those kind of activities, because there is nothing in my house that would contaminate me.
Then you get to the point, if it’s there the variety of the house that’s actually generated by Laksmi. In my mind it’s come because I have wanted these things, so I am dealing with Laksmi as that she is mine, so therefore she manifests as material energy. But it’s because of her there is variety, not because of me.
So I take this variety that’s in my house and keep it very nice and clean, because it’s Laksmi, as service to her, so that the house can be therefore engaged nicely in Krsna’s service, because that’s her service to Krsna. She is the house. So it’s her service to Krsna to serve as a house, and He is the enjoyer of the house. So therefore I assist by cleaning the house. I assist Laksmi by cleaning in the house. So there is nothing that can’t be connected.

Means you have things that are directly connected to Krsna, means the deity, His prasada, the holy name, the Vaisnavas, the dhama, the sastras. These five aspects are directly Bhagavan, therefore they are made in a distinct category over those things that are Paramatma or Brahman.
So because Paramatma and Brahman aspects we don’t necessarily see as Krsna, so then that’s given that that is considered sinful if you deal with it improperly. And those things that are identified and identifiable easily as Bhagavan, then those things you deal with improperly that’s called offensive. But technically it’s all Krsna. So then we can see everything in connection with Krsna. So we make that distinction.
So it’s then the easiest is just deal with the direct, don’t bother with the indirect. It makes life very simple. Just chant, associate with devotees, take prasada, preach, that’s all you do. Then that’s very nice. But as we need other things in our life, as we bring those other things into our life, they have to be connected, they have to be engaged. And just to say I am a devotee isn’t enough.
It’s just like, the man sits in the house, does nothing and says, I am the husband, therefore the house should work nicely. Does it work? It can never work. It can’t work. So why would Krsna consciousness work just because I said so? Krsna is satya-sankalpa, what He says comes true, we are not. So just because we said it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. So that means we are supposed to make the endeavor. That’s the whole point.
As we mentioned in this grammatical example, the soul is connected to the whole process of the interaction of the nouns by being connected to the verb. The soul is not the controller, the soul is not the enjoyer, the soul is not the field of activity, it’s not the place of the activity, it’s not the result of the activity, it’s not the cause of the activity, and the action itself is not us either. So that means the soul is not any of the nouns or verbs. But its connection with this process is to assist the verb in the interaction of the nouns. So that is our position. So that means action is important. So without action nothing will happen. But that’s spiritual action. It’s material inaction, it’s spiritual action.
So that’s then the position, it’s by an activity that you are actually going to accomplish this consciousness. Because you are going to do it. You can say I am servant of Krsna, but if you just stand there, the pots don’t get washed, so it’s nice that you identified as Krsna’s servant, that’s good, but that’s called sambandha. But there service is called abhideya. So until you get in there and wash those pots it’s not abhideya. Thinking I am servant of Krsna is preliminaries to, but is not actually the activity.
Mother Yasoda is attracted to Krsna as a child, she loves Him as a child, but it doesn’t stop there, she performs service constantly that Krsna is her child. There is not a time when she is not doing that. So these others are experiences of that attraction and love for Krsna, but it’s always expressed. The gopis are attracted by Krsna’s flute, they think of Him in their love for Him, then having gotten from sambandha to prayojana, from thinking to feeling, then willing they go out to the rasa dance. The gopis then they think, how cute is Krsna, and then they’ll go over and say something, do something, feed him. So in other words, these things are the impetus, the uddipana, which makes us want to do service. So in the bhava the vibhava aspect then generates this interest based on the natural relationship. But it’s still action is the essential principle.
So the difficulty is due to ignorance we tend to think that by doing nothing everything is going to happen nicely. I’ll just sit here and I will enjoy. I’ll sit here, do nothing, I will control everything, and I will sit here and do nothing and enjoy everything. When we are dealing with dead matter, generally we won’t agree with this. We’ll say, well, that won’t get you the money, that won’t get you this and that. True. But we apply this very, very nicely in relationships. I’ll just sit here and the other party in the relationship is going to actually do everything. So this is then a breakdown. This is where the illusion comes in.
It’s because when it comes to things then we can identify very nicely as the controller and enjoyer, because the brick doesn’t give us lip, we picked it up wrong, dropped it, broke off a corner, it doesn’t not talk to us for three days. So therefore then we go on in our ignorance, and only if we think, well, that was stupid, then we’ll slowly, because we want the brick to look nice, so we won’t drop it. But it’s all about us, it’s not really about the brick. But with people if you want relationships, the other person has to be fully part of that equation.
So that’s then where this illusion comes in, because we think we are the controller and enjoyer, and the impersonal aspect is we just will be happy by doing nothing. Means the platform of atma-rama is you are doing nothing. You are just experiencing bliss. But there is nothing going on. So that’s ok, Krsna can do that, the masculine element can do that, they are independent, they don’t actually require the manifestation and interaction with the feminine for their existence. So Krsna can just exist and be happy. But to increase that pleasure He expands His creation, expands His energy and interacts with it.

So we have this illusion that I am going to be self-sufficient and self-enjoying, but at the same time, that’s being accomplished through the other living entities interacting with me. But that doesn’t exist in the creation. Even the concept, our concept of how to be God is completely bogus. That I am not going to take part really nicely and I am going to be all happy from it.
So we are having a mix, we don’t understand between the atma-rama and the element of rasa. Rasa means interaction with both parties. Atma-rama means there is no interaction with another party because there is no other party. So we mix these, and this actually makes everything not work very nicely at all.
So then we think, ok, I am interacting that’s the bogus part, therefore I won’t interact. This gives rise to the impersonal. Because the atma-rama that’s the impersonal position for the living entity. Because the living entity isn’t masculine, so there is no such thing. The living entity being creation or what is created then is feminine, it’s dependent upon the masculine and the relationship with. So that means the feminine has to be connected with the masculine. That means the connection is the identity. So when we think I am servant of Krsna, then we are actually connected with the masculine. If we think I am the enjoyer we are not connected, we falsely produce our own masculine connection. Us as the feminine energy is connecting to ourself as the masculine controller and enjoyer of the energy, and we think that we are safe in this situation, when we are not.
Because everything that we deal with and interact with that we claim we are the lord of is actually interacting with someone else. The material energy is not interacting with us, it’s interacting with Krsna. We just happen to be there, and we enjoy and suffer.
Like you have the television screen and on the screen there is guys playing footie, and they are kicking the ball around and doing things and making goals and doing stupid stuff and they are interacting with each other, they have absolutely nothing to do with us. But we are sitting there on a coach with our tinnies and all this and that, and we are sitting there and yeah, yeah, oh that’s stupid, oh this, then we are enjoying, suffering and everything so much, and we are thinking we are actually doing, hey, do this, kick it. But it’s nothing to do with us.
So that’s exactly what’s going on here, the material energy is interacting with Krsna and we are sitting on the sidelines and saying, yeah, yeah, this that, because we identify with it, we think it’s us and we think it’s all happening. This is the illusion.
So as long as we sit there and do nothing and then try to be the controller and enjoyer of it, then we are always going to suffer. As soon as we understand that this is Krsna’s pastimes and we can assist in that by identifying as His servant and makes the proper connection, and as the position of assisting His devotees, headed by the internal potency, then whatever we are dealing with becomes yajna, becomes sacrifice.
It’s the pious concept that sacrifice simply means you have a fire and you pour some ghee in it, or just the holy name. These are yajna and they are the best manifestations of it, or japa. But actually everything is connected with the Lord, so therefore every aspect that you do is yajna. So if we understand that, then everything we do is connected. Then there isn’t a problem with the mind, because the mind has been completed converted to spiritual.
So the real problem is actually accepting that the problem is not the mind, the problem is our contaminated desire that we want to be the controller and enjoyer. That generates the mundane mind that gives us trouble. If we are willing to be Krsna’s servant, there is no mundane mind, and the spiritual mind doesn’t give us any trouble. Krsna says the mind is your best friend or worst enemy. If it’s connected to Krsna, it’s your best friend. It’s not connected, it’s your worst enemy.
Devotee (2): So you say that the column is Krsna’s energy, Laksmi. So it’s nice to know that that energy is material energy or external energy.
Maharaja: But it’s only external because you see it that way.
Devotee (2): I mean it’s related to Supersoul, the Paramatma.
Maharaja: Yes, but Supersoul is who? Supersoul is Krsna. He appears to you in the heart, that He is one guy standing there alone, because that’s all the way we see Him. Just like when we think of Karanodakasayi-Visnu, so then Karanodakasayi-Visnu we think of as one big guy lying there in this monstrous ocean. But now when Arjuna and Krsna went to visit Karanodakasayi-Visnu, what was there? A palace and Him and His servants and everything was going on. That’s the reality. Means Krsna is only called Paramatma, because that’s all we see.
So in the beginning we see Krsna as material energy. But we don’t recognize it’s Krsna, therefore it’s called maya. When we start recognizing that everything is energy, everything is Brahman, everything is spiritual, then we come to the Brahman platform. But that source of that energy is coming from somebody, that’s Paramatma. But when we understand that Paramatma is a person separate from all this and has His relationships with His devotees, then we come to the Bhagavan. So the same, it’s one thing with four different perspectives.
That’s the whole idea, to give up the mundane perspective and come to the spiritual. So we give up the mundane and start with Brahman. Brahman, Paramatma, we can relate to that. The Bhagavan aspect we relate to on one level as a person, but ultimately then we say, Krsna can’t be connected with this, so we don’t actually understand Him as Bhagavan. Because He is simultaneous one with the creation and different. He is non-dual, it’s connected with Him.
Because He manifests eternally in four features, as Himself as a person, as His internal potency, the external potency, and the jivas. These four are always there. But the internal potency, external potency is the same person, just they take a different mood depending upon you.
It’s just like, let us say, you are sitting there with your wife and you are in a public place, and you are discussing something that is something known between these two of you, something intimate, and you are sitting and laughing about it, enjoying the moment there. Then some outside person comes up whose character is not very good and is not very obvious and they look like they are trying to get something out of you, and they come up and start talking to you. Now do you go on and deal with him in that very nice intimate, open way as you did with your wife, or do you immediately become formal and what do you want? What happens? What do you do?
Devotee (2): Become formal.
Maharaja: Yes, you become formal. So that is the difference between Paramatma and Bhagavan. Because we deal with Him in that way, that’s how He reciprocates. Krsna says, as you surrender I reciprocate. You see Him as Vraja-Krsna He reciprocates as that. You don’t see Him as Vraja-Krsna He reciprocates like that.
Like Prabhupada says, our deities, means they are Radha-Krsna the forms, but they actually we are worshiping Laksmi-Narayana. Because we are worshiping that you have to do these rules and all that, and that’s what makes the deity worship. That’s the form of it. But it’s the devotion that makes the deity worship, and there is a proper form for it.
Devotee (2): But then why are these… lament for separation from Krsna if Krsna is everywhere and everything?
Maharaja: Because that’s everywhere and everything in that way, but then there is Krsna as a person. Krsna, every time He talks about Himself in essence, He always mentions how He is everything but He is still separate as a person. So you can feel Him everywhere.
It’s like this, the mum is sitting in her room and she is absorbed in whatever she is doing, the kid is at school, and she is just absorbed in what she does. Now when she walks out of her room into the hallway and sees the kid’s socks sitting there, now what happens? Then she remembers the kid, then there is separation. So there was something of the kid’s that reminded her of the kid, therefore separation. So now if everything in the creation you see as Krsna, why you will not feel separatation? That’s the point. (end of lecture) (end)