Vedanta Psychology - 6

Maharaja:  Continuing from yesterday, page 41:

Although thus not existing in reality, this manifestation of transformations created from the mode of passion appears real because the self-manifested, self-luminous Absolute Truth exhibits Himself in the form of the material variety of the senses, the sense objects, the mind and the elements of physical nature. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.28.22)

So the whole means the point, summary from here, these manifestations that we see here in this world technically even though they are existing, they are not real. The lack of reality is because we are not actually seeing them for what they actually are. The reality is they are Krsna. So because of that they appear to us to be real. But in reality they are not real. Because reality is you see it as Krsna. You don’t see it as Krsna, you are seeing illusion. You see Krsna, you are actually seeing reality. But even you don’t see Krsna, the reason the illusion seems real because Krsna He is the manifestation of that illusion.

So the whole point is it’s just Krsna. If you are Krsna conscious, you recognize it’s Krsna, so you are very happy being absorbed in Krsna. If you are not Krsna conscious, you are still seeing Krsna, that’s why you think it’s something nice. But you don’t know it’s Krsna, so that’s the illusion. You think it’s the material energy that’s attractive.

So in any case, the devotee, the materialist, they are dealing with Krsna. Of course, this completely blows out off the water that we are a bunch of little band of madmen and we are just sitting in this little corner and we are just cowering, because the karmis may not think what we are doing is very nice.

The whole point is it’s all Krsna anyway. That’s all there is. So this fear means we are not identifying ourself as servant of Krsna. Because if you identify yourself as servant of Krsna there is no fear. The term that one must become fearless. Fearless means you identify yourself as servant of Krsna, that’s what it means. Because if you identify you are fearless.

You are identifying with the field of activities and therefore thinking that you are a funny little part of it. I am sitting here in this field of activities, walking through this mall here around the corner from Alachua and therefore I look weird, because other people in the field think I look weird. So you have identified as matter, that’s why you are afraid. If you identify I am servant of Krsna, what’s there to be afraid of?

Everything everybody is looking at is Krsna anyway. They think, the guy is sitting over there with shades on act being really cool is something attractive, but that is Krsna. That coolness is Krsna, that togetherness, that not being needy, is Krsna. But they don’t know it’s Krsna. They think it’s the guy there with his Rayband’s sunglasses, but it’s not. It’s Krsna’s potency.

So that’s the thing. That’s how Prabhupada can go anywhere with confidence, because Krsna is everywhere. It’s not that He is just sitting there in the temple, and when you go out then it’s maya’s place and she is in charge. No, it’s still Krsna’s place. Just in the temple we are allowed to take part in running it, Laksmiji runs the place, we can assist, and outside maya runs the place, because no one is interested in serving Krsna through Laksmi, so therefore then maya runs it. But all it is is Krsna, there is nothing else. That’s reality, anything other than that is illusion. It’s that simple.

So then taking this then a step further, because we have the element, the non-different between Krsna and His energy. Just like we have this rock. What is this?

Devotee (1): A rock.

Maharaja:  A rock. Ok, now let us turn it around, what is this?

Devotee (1): The back of the rock.

Maharaja:  Yes, but is it the same rock?

Devotees: Yes.

Maharaja:  So it’s a rock. So that means the Lord and His energies are non-different. So now we are going to see the other side. So we thought that one was weird, now it gets more fun. Now this is Bhagavatam 6.19.13:

Mother Lakñmé, who is here, is the reservoir of all spiritual qualities, whereas You manifest and enjoy all these qualities. Indeed, You are actually the enjoyer of everything. You live as the Supersoul of all living entities, and the goddess of fortune is the form of their bodies, senses and minds. She also has a holy name and form, whereas You are the support of all such names and forms and the cause for their manifestation.

So now we are taking it a step further. Ok, now we were dealing with the Brahman aspect, that Krsna has entered everything, it’s all His, whatever manifestation you see is Him. That’s the Brahman aspect. You don’t see really the interaction. It’s just these energies are interacting with each other.

So now we take it a step further, actually all the forms and everything that you are dealing with, the manifestation here, that’s Laksmi. Krsna is the support of that. That’s how He is the creator, He is the support of the created, but it’s Laksmi. And so therefore then He is the enjoyer of everything, because it’s Laksmi. So He doesn’t deal with material energy. Because material energy is our concept. It’s just Laksmi. There is superior manifestations of Laksmi, there is inferior manifestations. So this is inferior. In the spiritual world, that’s superior.

Because it’s all there, Radharani is there, she expands, her sister is Ananga-manjari, and Ananga-manjari is Vrndavana, she is the dhama. They are people. So she is there doing her pastimes, but at the same time, everything that you see is also her expansion. So in the same way, everything that you see here, all the inanimate forms, all the animate forms, all the minds, the senses, everything that you see and interact with, that is all her expansion. And just as in the spiritual world, the spiritual world has expanded, created an environment for the Lord’s pastimes, this place is also the same way. So just because we can’t see it doesn’t mean that’s what’s not going on. And to not be able to understand this or appreciate this, means you understand it, appreciate this, this is deism, that God is something else and this is something else separate from God. So it is atheism.

So that’s the whole point, it is Him. That’s where it gets grungy. It’s not grungy that God is this, it’s grungy that you are trying to enjoy this. The problem is not that God has come as everything you see here, the problem is you are trying to enjoy that. That’s the reality. That’s the stark reality. The living entity is trying to enjoy what is the interaction between Laksmi and Narayana, and not see Laksmi-Narayana and claim I am Narayana and I am the controller and enjoyer and all this is mine. So Laksmi is mine and I am Visnu. This is the problem, not that Krsna has become everything, He is everything in the spiritual world.

Krsna is there playing in the…all the different things are there. Lord Caitanya has a pastime that He is the old pots. From eating all the clay pots are thrown in the garbage pile, and then He has somehow or another come to the conclusion that everything is all one, so He is sitting in the garbage pile. And Saci mata is saying, why are you sitting there? Because it’s all the same, it’s all manifestations of the same thing, so what does it matter whether you are sitting here or there? The pot inside, the pot outside it’s all the same thing. You break the pot, it all becomes one. So she then says, yes, but there is a difference in manifestation, and therefore they have their effects. Because eternally there is this relationship of God and His creation.

So to have that pastime means there has to be pots. So how are those pots manifested? Are those pots maya? Or are those pots Laksmi? He is having His pastime in His dhama in the spiritual world, what are those pots?

Devotees: Laksmi.

Maharaja:  Yes, it’s part of His pastime. It’s not Dhenukasura who thinks he is separate from the Lord, that’s maya. That’s Laksmi in the form of the external potency. He is pots, garbage. So don’t think all the garbage in your house isn’t still Krsna’s potency. That’s the idea.

So here this is how any time, any place anything can be connected to Krsna. So we see all this thing of being real prabhu and just being practical and getting into our puritanical moralism and all these different kind of things, they are just all 100% just atheistic nonsense. That’s all. Because you think it’s separate from Krsna. That’s the whole point. You think it’s separate from Krsna.

This concept of eternal damnation, that means you are thinking that there is something separate from Krsna. Otherwise how to you come to this point? The point is someone is in maya, put him back in the fire of Krsna consciousness, they are fire. But eternal damnation means it doesn’t matter how much you put him in the fire and throw some extra petrol on top they will never become fire again, because they are something separate from God. And I can perceive that, and I am in control of that. In other words, what’s separate from God I am in control of. So if we actually look at this, what is separate from God in this Western religion? That’s Satan. And who is in control of this hell? Satan. So therefore if you see something separate and you are in control of that, what does that make you? 

Devotees: Satan.

Maharaja:  Right, so that’s the point, if you don’t see it in this way you are not using your brains. And if you don’t use your brains you put yourself in a really foolish position. And this foolish position even though we are very proud of it you are still being an idiot. Suhotra Maharaja used to quote from…, does it matter who you are or who you think you are? It’s still the reality.

So that’s what’s going on here, we may not be able to maintain this. At this moment we are hearing this, we are able to see this. So as soon as the class is over, when we go, ok haribol and walk out of here, then everything turns back into its regular dirt and trees and everything else sitting like that. But the whole idea is being able to see this and being able to understand this, then it puts the mentality more proper, so that we make less mistakes, we are more open to when Krsna consciousness comes to us in whatever form that we are able to take it and use it.

So these are very, very important elements, because we can see this is where the mind is tricking us. This is where the craziness comes in. Because the craziness means it’s a different philosophy. Craziness doesn’t mean we are in pure Vaisnava philosophy of pure Vaisnava understanding and things are going wrong. No. It means we are seeing it differently than pure Krsna consciousness.

So now we have given the Brahman level. This one where we see Laksmiji we are dealing with the, means basically there is an element of the Paramatma but also the Bhagavan it just depends upon whether you are just seeing the Lord, His creation, Laksmi like this, then it’s taking that. But if you are seeing their interaction then the…

Devotee (2): …nearer to you because the mosquitoes?

Maharaja:  Oh no, I am ok. No, I am waving my arms just out of being, it’s just something to do. Thank you very much though, it wasn’t mosquitoes. Sometimes it’s mosquitoes. In other words, if the emotional level is low and we are waving our arms, that’s mosquitoes. Thank you.

So these levels that are open to us this is what’s being offered to us. So the only thing that gets in the way of us seeing like this and making this progression from impiety to piety to Brahman understanding to Paramatma to Bhagavan is our own doubts and misgivings.

Oh, Krsna couldn’t be that. Somebody got divorced, so they are eternally damned. They can’t hold any position or service in the society forever. So what does that mean? That means the holy name can’t purify it. Before you joined you ate cows, you are not going to get rid of that for 2½ generations in your genes, but somehow or another that’s just puff, gone, because we chanted Hare Krsna. But if you join the movement and you make any mistake ever again, you are finished. Where does this come from? Where does this concept come from? It’s not Vaisnava, it’s not devotional, it’s not our philosophy, where is it? It’s Christianity.

Even the Jews are a little bit more broad than this. The Old Testament everybody did something wrong, I think except maybe Abraham. But I think other than him everybody did some really bad thing. The Wailing Wall, the most sacred place for the Jews that’s the Temple of Salomon, and then he gets off on somebody else’s wife. Somebody got drunk, somebody did this, somebody did that. Moses he didn’t have faith in the holy name. They still worship Moses even though he didn’t go into Israel. But in the New Testament squeaky clean, squeaky clean, everything immaculate, everything perfect, if anything went wrong then they can’t handle it. Why? Because they are more impersonal. Then you bring it further forward into the Protestant, they throw out all the sadhus, all culture, all everything. So it’s just you and God, that’s it. You and your money, you and your sense gratification. This is why we make rules like this, because we don’t believe in the power of the holy name.

Because the point is here, everything being Krsna that means everything is already in Krsna consciousness, it’s a matter of us seeing it, that’s all, it’s just a matter of us seeing it. Nothing else. So we go on in all these other illusory things and we come up with all these weird cultural phenomenas that we take as normal. Normal for what? For a Westerner. It’s not normal for the Asians, it’s not normal for those from Africa, South-America, anywhere else other than the First World. And therefore we think our imperialistic view is the view. That’s the problem.

So we bring our own non-Krsna conscious baggage into Krsna consciousness, we don’t take up the Krsna conscious culture, then we’ll be tricked. And who is tricking us? The mind. So that’s the whole point of this, it’s the key how to get from non-Krsna consciousness to Krsna consciousness, it’s the mind. But you have to be able to see what the mind is doing, what it’s actually accepting and not accepting, what it’s accepting and rejecting.

So it’s not accepting Krsna is everywhere, because we have our idea, it’s contaminated therefore Krsna can’t enter it. That’s the whole point, Krsna can’t enter it. How many temples that those in the temple they are the Krsna conscious people and those living outside the temple are something less? Ambarisa, he was a strict brahmacari, right? What about Yudhisthira and his brothers? What about any of the great devotees? Narada Muni is a brahmacari, Kumaras are brahmacaris. But this idea is quite universal. You go around our 400 temples how many hundreds of them will think like this? And how many one or two won’t? Why? Because we think that this Krsna can’t enter into that, that Krsna is not all those different things. So this is the problem.

So it’s not just some theoretical philosophy as some will try to make it out to be and that their bourgeois economics is the reality. No. This is the reality and all that is illusion. It’s the illusion you have to deal with, that’s the reality. But the point is you don’t deal with it then you come back and take birth again. That simple. So one has to be able to take these things. It’s not like there is an alternative. It’s God’s creation, it’s God’s laws, you have to follow His laws with an idea to please Him.

So that’s these things are here and are being pointed out to us. That’s His kindness. Because for Krsna it doesn’t matter, we have been here how long? We have done what? I have heard it said that the devotee, someone becomes a devotee after he has already been through all the 8.400.000 species, so that means you have done a lot of nonsense, and somehow or another that can all be purified by the holy name. So the process still goes on even as a devotee, unless, of course, you are a puritan, then it doesn’t go on.

The point is why is the example given of iron and fire? This is not just an arbitrary example. And what is this example of? The example of the absolute. Because we’ll take absolute, it has to be one thing, it can never be anything else. But absolute means it’s in contact with the absolute. So that means everything is in contact. Now it’s a matter of are you aware of that or not. You are aware you are in the fire of the absolute, you are not aware then you are separate.

Because to say you are eternally damned means that you have a situation that is not connected to Krsna, and so what philosophy is that? It has to be Christianity. There is no such thing in Vaisnavism. Jagai and Madhai could be redeemed and they were great brahmanas, high-grade brahmanas that were degraded.

Devotee (3): When you talk about motherness and childness and coolness like that, it seems that these are stripping the jiva of any kind of personality by virtue of fact that all these energies are some kind of abstract metaphysical ideals that are just manifesting through us in some sense.

Maharaja:  Is that a problem? Your blender in your house, is it that plastic and little metal things that is making everything happen or is it the current that is moving through it? You can have a blender sitting there all day, if it’s not plugged in nothing gets blended. So the point is why do you call it a blender? Electricity also goes through the refrigerator, it goes through the iron, it goes through your toothbrush. So why do you call it what you call it?

Devotee (3): Because of its function or its…

Maharaja:  Yes, function or form. So just because the Lord’s potency is making something work doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have that particular flavors and identities. But even that is that the jiva? Was the jiva born in Manhattan? So then what’s the problem of it being stripped of that? So that’s the thing, we can strip it of it and work with it at the same time. The modern concept either you are stripped of it or you have it, and they can’t deal with anything else. They can’t deal with oxymoron, that you have two things that don’t make any sense that match. It’s like saying a romantic Greek drama. They don’t go together. Somebody has to die. There has to be some kind of tragedy.

But the point is the material world is that, you have the soul which is transcendental, you have the Lord and His energies which are transcendental, and all this is being manifest through dead matter, but the forms and everything are created because of the desire of the jiva who is transcendental and through Laksmi which is transcendental. But because the living entity doesn’t see that he thinks it’s something separate from God, therefore he thinks he can enjoy it. Because if it’s God how do you enjoy it?

So it’s very personal the whole thing. That the jiva himself is in this illusion by his own desire. And what is manifesting now is his particular conditioned nature. And it’s just a matter of he can even take that conditioned nature through the material energy and still connect it all to Krsna and see Krsna, and be just as Krsna conscious as if he was taking the spiritual nature and a spiritual form and engaging that in the Lord’s service. Because for Krsna there is no difference.

Is this me? But this isn’t, right? So the hands might see some big difference, but the person who owns the hands doesn’t. My hand is superior, my foot is not, therefore you can step on my foot? No, it’s still me.

So for Krsna His internal potency, external potency it’s all Him. So He can be manifest and interact and experience rasa anywhere in any manifestation. But within that there is superior and inferior.

Someone comes up and a friend goes, pats you on the back, then that has one feeling. If he comes up and pats you let’s say on your chin, it works, ok, but it’s not as good as patting you on the back.

So the material energy, the rasa in the material world between Laksmi and Narayana and their manifestations here it’s their interaction, but it’s only a spark of their real full form in the spiritual world. So it’s rasa, but it is very, very minimal. But for us, we think it’s something very, very special. Because we identify with dead matter so any movement is better than nothing.

If you are sitting there and there is nothing, you can’t see any form of life and that’s it, and suddenly you see a spider walking by, man, you are best friends, wow, hey, they’ll have a whole.

So that’s what’s going on, we have taken the material world, identified with it, therefore any movement in it that’s created by this verse, by the Lord and His potencies, by Laksmiji, then we take that as something special and immediately we are enthused by it. But we are enthused because we are people, and we are enthused by people. The dead matter isn’t enthusing us. That’s the illusion. That’s why we suffer because we think it’s there. And the material energy is temporary, so it’s always going to have a creation, manifestation and a dissolution. So everything that we think is special goes away. But it hasn’t. Because that potency is still there, that interaction between the Lord and His potencies is still going on. So if we recognize that, then we move into the eternal realm. But as long as we think it’s not that, then we think it’s this temporary realm, therefore everything is temporary. It’s very personal.

Like sometimes, there was one letter I read where one devotee is complaining to Srila Prabhupada about another devotee that they are so impersonal, that they are dealing in this way and that way. And Prabhupada says no, it’s because it’s personal that’s why they are dealing that way. Because they are people they are dealing like that, maybe in an unpurified state, so they are being selfish, but it’s because they are a person that they are dealing in this way. Impersonal means what do you care, it doesn’t matter.

So the whole thing is everything is personal. But the problem is it’s all self-centered, that’s what’s unnatural for the jiva. The jiva its nature is not to be self-centered. Its nature is to assist in others’ relationship. So that sense of sacrifice that’s the eternal nature of the jiva. So when that’s accepted then the jiva becomes happy. But we don’t have faith that we’ll be happy by doing that. We feel unless I do something for myself I can’t be happy. But that’s our idea, but that’s not the way we are. We are happy when we are assisting someone else in their happiness.

Otherwise why is it movies and all this is so popular? It’s someone else, it’s not you. So that’s the whole thing, it’s other people, and you get so involved. You read a book, you get so involved. You hear a story, gossip, why do we get into gossip? Because it’s someone else and their feelings and relations. So that’s the whole thing. So it’s all in relationship to others. It’s been misguided, because that’s where the illusion comes in, because we don’t actually understand what we are dealing with. We are handed a cauliflower, we think it’s a lawnmower, that’s the illusion.

Devotee (4): This phenomena of devotees in the Western world, we are feeling insecure and not confident and comfortable wearing devotional dress, because they feel people think they are weird, people think that…, what is this energy?

Maharaja:  That’s maya, because we are not identifying actually as servant of Krsna and what’s going on.

Because if you think you are weird wearing bed sheets, you ask all the parents they think their kids or teenagers are weird for what they wear. And one group of teenagers thinks the other group of teenagers is weird. So everybody thinks everybody else is weird. All it is some are good at keeping it quiet and some are not so good at keeping it quiet. But everybody thinks everybody else is weird. Except for your two or three friends everybody else is weird. It’s just the way it is.

So the point is if you are confident, this is what we wear, what do we care? After a while people accept it. If a priest walks down the street in America wearing his big black whatever it is with his little white collar, does anybody complain, laugh, roll on the ground? No, nobody. The nuns go out looking weirder than our ladies. Funny little skirts and the little things in the hair trying to keep their hair covered and all that kind of stuff. And everybody accepts them for who they are. They have a nice conversation, even respect them. So they respect that order, so they are respected. We don’t respect it, we think it’s something less, therefore no one respects.

Just like if you walk down the street and a dog comes up and growls at you, you just look at him and keep walking. But if you start to run, he will chase you.

So in the same way, you think you look stupid, then everybody thinks you look stupid. It’s just a point. If you are comfortable with yourself, no one else will be uncomfortable.

Prabhupada was comfortable, everybody else was comfortable. No one said, Prabhupada, who is the guy with the funny bed sheets? They only say we are in funny bed sheets, why? Because we think we are in funny bed sheets. And then they do this, then devotees come up with these things, well, it’s Indian, nowhere in the sastra does it say dhoti and all that. We got such great scholars in our movement. We got fabulous scholars in our movement. Prabhupada talks about dhoti where did it come from. Prabhupada doesn’t know what he is talking about? So if the word dhoti is not used, there is only one word for that? There is only one word for this tin can with four rubber tires on it and a steering wheel? There is so many words for it. So there is not words for these?

Have you ever heard of the thing trikaca? Trikaca is another name for a dhoti. Means it has three different sets of folds. So I mean there is so many things there. Oh the sari is not, that’s Moslem thing. The Moslem took up Indian dress when they came here. You go to Mongolia, look at what they wear. You go to Kazakhstan, look what they wear. You go over to Turkey, you look at what they wear. Do they wear what they wear here? No. So when the Moguls came to India they took up the India dress. They modified it how they liked it. They liked the kurtas, they made them a little longer. They liked the collar on the bagal bundi thing, but they didn’t like the bundi aspect of it, they did it for a while, so they kept the collar and then dropped the rest of it, then we call it a Chinese collar. So all these things, they just took what was here and they adjusted it. The music is the same, they just didn’t like all the words about Krsna, so they took that out, so all you hear is aaaahhhh. It’s the same thing.

And then these foolish indologists then they say it’s something else. They are idiots. That’s the whole thing. Means a person who is the head of a department or a scholar in Judaism is Jewish and what they say is in line with their scriptures and in support of it. Someone who is head of Moslem studies is the same. Buddhist studies is the same. Only in indology is atheist of something else and we take it up and sit there licking their shoes and thinking that is special. It’s just nonsense. And then we talk like them. So this is the problem.

They are too intelligent. This is what Prabhupada meant about too intelligent. They are so smart they go into the realm of stupidity. But they don’t understand that stupidity in our terminology is called atheism. So when they profess all this stuff they are professing atheism. And we are not coming in here from the hellfire and brimstone thing, we are coming in here from straight philosophy, straight metaphysics. You can pick it apart and show exactly how it is. So we are just talking fact. It’s not sentiment. So that’s the difficulty.

If there is a need, if it will help the preaching to wear karmi clothes, we are happy to wear them, we couldn’t care less. But to say you can only wear these and no one else, that’s nonsense. Our devotees will go in karmi clothes to one of these, what do you call it, all the religions get together?

Devotees: Interfaith.

Maharaja:  Interfaith thing. And the Buddhists are wearing their Buddhist dress, and the nuns and the priests are in their dress, and we are in karmi clothes. It’s like, that’s just pure unalloyed attachment to their own conditioned nature. That’s all it is. It’s nothing to do with preaching, Krsna conscious, nothing. He just found a nice out for it, that’s all. That’s all.

You stick to your faith, people join. You don’t stick to your faith, who wants to join somebody who is faithless? That’s the thing. People are looking for something in their life. They are not looking for insecurity, they already have that.

So this whole point, Krsna is there in everything everywhere, and there is nothing that’s not Him. So there is not any problem. Why is it you pay, means I have said this so many times, why is it you pay so much money for a model? Just get some guy or girl and they walk down this runway and then they pay them so much. Why? Because they look so fabulous? Some of them look pretty bad. There is nothing there, they say it’s a girl, but it would be really hard to figure out anatomically if it is. Or they say it’s a guy, but that would also be hard to figure out. Why do they pay them? Because they got panache, they got attitude. They put on the most ridiculous outfits that there are and walk down there like this is like perfectly normal. And the people on the side sit there and go, I’ll take ten of those, a hundred of those, a thousand of these. If they just took an ordinary person off the street walk down, they wouldn’t buy anything.

So that’s the whole thing, who wears what they are wearing with confidence that’s what people notice. That’s all. So there is no such thing as really in fashion or out of fashion, it’s a matter of what people wear with confidence. You think it’s in fashion, I wear it with confidence. And I am wearing it every day until the fashion changes and then when others are wearing something else then I feel insecure, then it goes out of fashion. But some people like it, they wear it every day, no one says anything. They are still wearing their old 1940s pleats and their pant stuff and nobody says anything. Why? Because they feel comfortable in it. That’s all it is.

Because they identify, I am these pants, so therefore like that. We can’t do that very good, we are kind of stuck on the middle. But we can identify, I am servant of Krsna, and it will generate more confidence than this other thing.

So these things, the philosophy and the culture you can’t separate them. Because if it’s philosophy without culture it will be speculation. And if it’s culture without philosophy it will just be sentiment.

Devotee (4): Would it be also wearing devotional dresses, just like a police officer he is wearing this uniform he is not going to do something that is against the law.

Maharaja:  Yes, that’s there.

Devotee (4): So similarly a devotee wearing his devotional clothes he is going to be a little bit more…

Maharaja:  He has to be more careful, yes.

Devotee (4): More careful with the material energy and he won’t be going into movies with that dhoti.

Maharaja:  Yes, like that, unless there is a bunch of other devotees going. What is it, Star Wars had so many Krsna conscious elements that the devotees were going to see that.

Devotee (5): The first week in our bhakta program all the bhaktas went to Gandhi.

Maharaja:  Gandhi, ok.

Devotee (4): So what you say is that clothes they are important?

Maharaja:  Clothes are not very important. What’s important is the mentality. That’s what we are trying to get at here. But the point is, it’s a matter of identity. This is a very, very fine point, I have spoken so strongly on this about it, but I am speaking actually not about the clothes, I am speaking about the mentality with which they are worn. That’s the whole point.

In other words, the devotee is wearing a dhoti. Why is he wearing it? What’s his mentality? If he is not wearing it, what’s his mentality? His wearing karmi clothes, what’s his mentality? So that’s what we are talking about. Because we are dealing here with the mind. These others are external manifestations. That’s why it’s difficult many times to catch the points because of this seeing the difference between the subtle and the gross. Means technically the spiritual, the metaphysical, and the physical are all connected. But we tend to see them all very differently.

So it’s like this, the devotee is wearing his dhoti, and because we are devotees of Krsna, but we are special and all these other nonsense rascal dirty filthy scumbags are out here, then that’s nice he has faith, but his faith is polluted by pride. So therefore the karmis won’t appreciate. Or he is wearing his karmi clothes and he is thinking that it’s because you can’t wear devotee clothes and this and that and so we have to wear this, people will see him as insecure, as weak. Or the karmi is identifying, yes, I am this clothes, I look great, this guy brand name stuff, so I am looking good, but they identify with the clothes. So people notice the clothes, but it’s not necessarily they notice the person other than his attitude. If he is able to project enough attitude they’ll notice that. But when they see him they don’t go necessarily, you look great, they’ll say, wow, nice shirt. If he is projecting enough energy and looking comfortable, then they’ll say, you look great. So even the karmis are unknowingly making a differentiation.

So the devotee is wearing this because this is our tradition, this is what we wear. Or he is wearing the karmi clothes because this is what’s going to work for this preaching, so therefore I should look my best at it, but I still don’t identify with it. That’s then what this affords us. Because it’s the Lord’s potencies that are working.  

In other words, clothes are worn by human beings, it’s just part of the human culture. In that it has it looks aesthetic, there is some aspect of practicalness and aesthstics that’s there. So those are potencies. Practicalness is a potency. That it looks good is a potency. Now that is the principle on what it is. So it’s not what you wear.

So the ideal is what they wear in the spiritual world, so that will be your dhotis, saris and all that. You have the opportunity, why one wouldn’t want to wear? Krsna wears, you like to be like who you have appreciation for. But if the situation doesn’t afford that, you wear whatever works.

But the main principle is that it works and it looks good. That’s the bottom line. You have to look like a cultured person. So even you are wearing non-devotional clothes it should be nice non-devotional clothes that reflect the environment you are in. You got an in, you are going to the academy, you wear a tuxedo. That’s what fits the situation. And you better wear a good one, otherwise they think you are an idiot.

So it’s more the mentality of wearing it and how it’s worn that’s more important than what’s being worn. So those who speak that you are wearing a dhoti that’s Krsna consciousness, they have missed the point, but at least they are trying to follow some tradition. Those that say, it doesn’t matter, you can wear whatever you want, we are not from India so we don’t wear Indian clothes. But then you define what’s American clothes? A lot of Americans wear a big huge chain like this. So why aren’t our devotees wearing that? They wear shades at night. I don’t see the devotees wearing that. A couple of them of course. So what’s American? What’s English? What’s French? How is it defined?

So therefore it’s a matter of what is cultured for the situation. So the thing is basically unless the other person has some kind of attitude problem with devotional clothes, devotional clothes work anywhere. They are the most universal of anything. But if the other persons are having a problem.

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Maharaja had a group of persons, or two groups. One group that wore 3P suits with spats, and another group that dressed up, they wore these black turbans, black kind of real puffy kind of like cape things with a little white collar and these, what do they call those, those pants, they are puffy up here and then they are super tight on the legs?

Devotee (5): Jumpers.

Maharaja:  Jumpers, but.

Devotee (6): Plus-fours. 

Maharaja:  Plus-fours, ok, like that. I think they also call it, they may call them chudidars I think, I am not sure. It’s a kind of pants and they are really tight along here, with black shoes. And they would go out presenting things, they would be going. In other words, the guys in suits would go out for getting work done. The guys in the other thing would go out to preach to the British because they would accept that they are the priests. So it was because of the mentality of the British then he used that.

So we don’t have any problem with it. But they never thought that this is ok and devotional clothes are stupid or unnecessary. No, when they needed that they wore that. Just like you take a bath, you put on a gamsha. So if the pants and the polo t-shirt are so important, why are they not wearing them in the shower? Because it doesn’t match. So that’s the thing. So you wear what’s appropriate. So it’s a mentality.

So in other words, this stuff here then is taken into the Lord’s potencies. Because how do you choose what looks good or not? So you take something more towards the sattvika. Otherwise you can go out in your stressed jeans and this and that and look just like something off the street. The reason it’s stressed is because somebody picked you up and rubbed the sidewalk with you that made it clean and stood you back up again, then you go fashion.

So that’s the thing, you don’t look like someone off the street. And if you check, you go to most every temple, when a devotee leaves the temple, goes out on sankirtana, a lot of them look like they are off the street, or they look like they belong in an insane asylum, or they have to be a complete total nerd down the university that doesn’t even notice their clothing. So you tell me how any of those actually fit in? So it’s very few that actually dress that would fit in. I have only seen a couple that really dress good, Balarama, you remember, he used to dress good, Bhavananda, he is…, he looks good. So many people they look good, but very few. Most of them look like you wouldn’t want to be like them because they dress so badly, or they are right off the street so if you were a gentleman you wouldn’t even want to talk to them.

So it’s they are not even catching the potencies that are working here. So that’s the point, you catch the potencies you understand what’s going, so then you dress appropriately. So this philosophy is very, very practical, very practical.

Devotee (7): So you are speaking about the dress should be practical. So while traveling like in an airplane for ten, twelve hours a tri-kaca is not exactly the most…

Maharaja:  Depends on your practice, I wouldn’t go there not with me. I have worn a dhoti everywhere, done everything, and I don’t really…

Devotee (7): A lungi or a dhoti?

Maharaja:  A dhoti, I wear a dhoti for such a long time and I wore it good. I have never seen any reason to not.

Devotee (7): Maybe we need courses on how to travel with devotional clothes.

Maharaja:  That’s the whole…, you need courses on how to wear them and different ways to wear them and stuff like that. It’s a matter you know how to wear it, it works.

Most of the stuff that one would wear in the West is really unpractical for doing. They are always having to pull it up so that the crack in their bum doesn’t stick out, pull it up so the nipples don’t come out and this and that kind of stuff. Very impractical stuff, but they claim it’s so practical. No, it is. It’s practical means people can see your body, they get maybe attracted, maybe you got a shot at finding somebody to live with for the rest of your life.

Devotee (7): If you are moving in and out of a seat, then it’s got these…

Maharaja:  Yes, so therefore it’s called a hand, and when you get up you move your hand like this. When women sit down with skirts they do it all the time.

Devotee (7): Question of practice.

Maharaja:  It’s a question of practice. Everything is a question of practice.

You got a gun in the holster under your arm, it’s a matter of practice to get it through the suit into there, pull it out in a nanosecond and blow the guy’s head off. That’s more practical would be to have it slung across here with a whole thing like that and all the bullets right there, like that. But then that’s a little obvious.

Devotee (7): That went out of style.

Maharaja:  Yes, so it’s not so fashionable these days.

So it’s a matter of practice. Means if you value it, you will practice it where it works. You get on the bicycle, the first thing you do is notice every tree there is between you and wherever you are going and bump into them. But with practice you can do anything. So it’s a matter of clothes or practice. Otherwise Krsna is not so stupid that He’d take a bunch of cows out into a field with a dhoti on if it wasn’t practical, it didn’t look good in practical. So it’s just a matter of practice. You just know that the arm is there, the folds in the back get caught in that, so you know how to deal with it. So it’s just practice.

Devotee (7): Did He also wear pants sometimes? I mean sometimes we dress the deity in dhoti, sometimes the deity is dressed in pants.

Maharaja:  But those pants generally if they are done traditionally they are generally done out of a dhoti. But if are going to wear pants, go ahead, wear those kind of pants. Great. You also have to wear one of those shirts also.

Devotee (7): And the turban.

Maharaja:  Yes, and the turban.

Devotee (7): So you are saying about the devotees who just don’t wear right, no matter whether they are wearing Western dress or they are wearing Indian or Vedic dress or whatever. So it’s a question of being respectable of carrying it with style. So that just really boils down to the personality, because the person’s taste, you cannot argue about taste, you cannot educate people on taste in the same way of dressing. Ok, you can say this is the what we understand as taste or sanity and you should be inside this box otherwise you are not fit for public consumption. But then again everybody has their own choice on how they…

Maharaja:  Their choice, but it’s still is how they wear their choice. Because it’s a matter of how it’s worn and presented. Because in other words, it’s still the mentality. In other words, you are dealing with higher elements here, higher potencies.

The whole idea is, you have your dress, but then there is something behind that. Because the point is, if we simply deal with the physical, what is elevating us? So the physical is based on the metaphysical, and that metaphysical is going in the direction of spiritual. So the whole idea is, you become conscious of what you are dressing, what you are wearing, how you are wearing it, the situation you are in when you are wearing in, then it starts to make sense.

Like you walk along and there is a puddle, you have these nice pants, it’s hard to pull them up, but dhoti you just grab it and it’s up. You can walk through water, no problem. I mean if you can walk on water, that’s even better.

So the whole idea is, it’s creating consciousness, that’s what you are trying to create. Because if you can become conscious of what you are wearing and how you are wearing it, you could become conscious that those principle of what you are wearing and how you are wearing is Krsna, that’s the next step. But unless you are conscious of what you are wearing other than your own personal identity, then how are you going to see Krsna in it? That’s what you are trying to get at, that’s why any aspect can be used. Even if they are wearing some fashionable things that are maybe very strange, but still they have to wear it properly according to the fashion to get that aesthetic potency to flow through it, then it becomes useful. Otherwise it didn’t.

So that’s the point, you are trying to invoke consciousness wherever is your attachments, because that’s what this section is about. This section is about who is behind passion and attraction. So the thing is why we are attracted to wear that kind of pants or that shoe or that shirt or have this kind of couch or that picture on the wall or this kind of treating of our floor or curtains or our bed covers or our pillows, is because of Krsna’s potency of attraction here. It’s actually Krsna, but we don’t realize. So if it’s Krsna, then it’s either I am keeping all these twenty pillows on my bed nicely because I like the look of these pillows, or I just like pillows.

But the point is, what is it what we are dealing with? If Krsna is those pillows, then it’s not I like them looking like this, therefore I keep them nice, that Krsna has come in the form of these pillows and with the potency of Laksmi is that attractiveness or whatever it is and also that form, therefore I need to keep these pillows nicely and looking nice because it’s service to Krsna. So therefore all your twenty little fancy throw pillows have become connected to Krsna. Otherwise they are just being practical and just keeping a nice house like anybody else does, and it has therefore no Krsna conscious content. But the other one is there, and after a while, if it’s Krsna, then it’s like why do I need twenty of them? If it’s my nature, I got to have twenty, then I have twenty. But if it’s not, I simply picked it up, because I saw someone else with twenty of them, then actually it looks nice with only five. So I start reducing my attachments, because I am increasing the quality of how I am dealing.

So you can start with anything, you are going up the stair, in that little landing there is a little triangle table in the corner and on it it’s a little dinky little vase thing and inside is a few little dried flowers. But those flowers should be looking proper, it should be in the vase, the vase should be properly on the table, the table is not sticking out from the corner, it’s sitting there properly. Why? Because it’s Krsna’s potencies. It’s there, because you wanted it. So it’s starting from yourself, but since it’s there, work with it properly, it’s Krsna.

Devotee (7): But to get it there in that shape and style took a lot of effort, a lot of trouble, and a lot of disturbance. So the so-called harmony and peace which is now present which you say one can appreciate as Krsna has cost a lot of effort and headache, so the question is always, what is greater, like in association, the pain or the pleasure which is perceived from it?

Maharaja:  So then that will…it will start to make you conscious, so you’ll start to think about that, and then you’ll start to be more wary about going into boutiques that are in buildings that are leaning more than Pisa to buy stuff, because it might fall over at any time. So then, like you are saying, the trouble it takes, is it really worth it? Because if you are looking at Krsna as aesthetics, do I actually need Krsna in that form of that aesthetic? So then I might not need it, so therefore I don’t have to get the car, go to Calcutta, run around, and do all the different things and all that kind of thing. And then to do that you have to have the money, to do that you have to, all these different things. So it may be seen, I can appreciate Krsna in aesthetics in much less or more simple or more refined or seomthing, and then slowly, slowly it reduces the need, because you are connecting it.

Devotee (7): The reductionist might also tend to some tinge of Mayavada if you are taking out the elaborateness and just making it…

Maharaja:  No, because the thing is, fineness…

Devotee (7): Clear cut.

Maharaja:  It’s not a matter of clear cut is meaning that. It’s a matter of because it’s Krsna, therefore it’s refined.

 Because it’s like you see in, what do you call it, this is really stretching, do you understand where this is going? We are still dealing with this same point, but we are trying to bring it into your house. Because we’ll say, ok, great philosophy and I talk about the pillar, but I haven’t got a pillar in my house, so it doesn’t work. So the whole thing is there, it is going in, you have take Versailles, no one will say it’s stark or Mayavada, but it’s got one room and inside is one pillar and on it is one clock, but it perfectly matches. So you look in an architectural magazine, Better Home & Garden, it says you generally have two kinds of houses, very clean and very few things that are there nicely, but well balanced, or you name it it’s there, millions of things, but they are all nicely placed. In either case it’s one aspect of Krsna, simplicity is a form of beauty, at the same time, the very things are very complex. You take the cauliflower, you steam it, you put some butter and salt and pepper on it, it tastes nice, it’s very simple, but it’s balanced. You take that same cauliflower, cook it with twenty different spices in a nice gravy, and it tastes nice, because it’s balanced.

But the main point is according to your conditioned nature however complex or simple is required, that’s what you use. But the point is, it’s Krsna. It’s not something else. The reason you like it is because it’s Krsna. So therefore since it’s Krsna, start to deal with it properly, you can’t not deal with it… You can’t just throw the pillow in the corner, because if that’s Krsna or Laksmi you don’t do that. You have to respect that pillow and put it properly. So that means everything in your house you have to actually deal with it respected, not it’s mine, I deal with it however I like. No, it’s Krsna, therefore you have to deal with it according to how He likes.

Vedanta Psychology - part 5

Maharaja:  So now discussion on what’s behind the attraction that’s there generated from the mode of passion. So then here is a quote from the Bhagavatam 11.28.22:

Although thus not existing in reality, this manifestation of transformations created from the mode of passion appears real because the self-manifested, self-luminous Absolute Truth exhibits Himself in the form of the material variety of the senses, the sense objects, the mind and the elements of physical nature.

So here it’s mentioning, now we are getting into, we always have to understand when we are discussing real and non-real what it means here. When we are discussing real and non-real, because real means it’s connected to the Lord, it’s in knowledge, it’s not in ignorance. So ignorance is considered not real. But it’s not that the ignorance itself is not real. The ignorance is a reality, it exists. Then there is the consciousness or the perception of the individual that is in ignorance, that’s the non-reality. That’s why it’s called ignorance. Because ignorance is just, means it’s uneducated, you don’t know what you are looking at.

Just like the child in ignorance thinks the diamond is just something to play with like a marble, it’s a little more sparkly, but that’s about it. So that’s ignorance, that’s illusion. That’s what’s not real. The idea that this diamond has no value that is illusion. But the diamond exists, the child exists, the floor on which he is playing with it exists. It’s very important to understand that this real and…, there is no such thing as nothing. This is a voidist understanding which will come up very shortly.

So the idea is here when it says it’s these transformations, they are created from the mode of passion, it says, these transformations, so something is transforming, it exists, but it’s not real, what’s not real about it, the non-reality is not understanding that it’s the Lord. Everything that you are dealing with is Krsna. So the illusion is to think that it’s not.

But in this, of course, that has to be, because here we are dealing with the intellectual understanding, so we are taking it from the principle that someone is trying to find Krsna, please Krsna, and get to the platform of prema. We are not looking from the platform of somebody is looking for an excuse for their nonsense. That’s not what we are looking at. Because if you want excuses, plenty of excuses.

Oh, it’s Krsna, oh, then it’s ok for my nonsense. No, that’s why Rupa Goswami then in Nectar of Devotion says means activities in connection with Krsna that are favorable to Krsna, only that is devotional service. Otherwise we can have so many activities where there is a connection with Krsna, but it’s not favorable to Krsna, it’s not devotional service.

Devotee (1): Only activities that are actually decreasing our attachment and desire to satisfy our senses of this material world and ones that are increasing our attachment are then unfavorable, even though that is the big grey area.

Maharaja:  Yes, you could say that, those that decrease our attachment to the material world and increase our attachment to Krsna, but it’s two different kinds. So right now we are dealing with the element of detachment from the material world, because you have always remember Krsna and never forget. So always remember then, He is very nice, very attractive, very sweet, very beautiful, all these very nice qualities. From that we are attracted to Him. But what gets in the way of our being attracted like that is our attraction for the material world, we get distracted. Krsna may be very nice, but there is something else that comes up.

You are in temple, you are absorbed in thinking of the deity and everything is going nice, and then your friend comes up to you and says, hey, did you know that that girl is looking at you, or that boy is looking at you? Bang. What happened to all the nice, the deity and all the things, and I am your servant, it’s gone, wow, what’s that? So it’s gone. Why? Because it just takes precedence, because that’s what we have always done.

Like I remember seeing these two, one of these local they are a variety of these miners, making an unlimited amount of sound. So two of them came down and they sit on the ground right next to each other with their beaks about this much apart and then they start making so much noise, and they swing back and forth while they do this. And their beaks are going, and they are having a whole conversation. And suddenly the conversation stops, because somebody saw a bug. And basically, bang, run off and eat the bug, and the other one gets the bug, and they go that for a couple of seconds, and then they come back and start the same thing. They say, hey, how are you, I haven’t seen you so long. Get over, eat something like that, and then finish it, oh yeah, great, so nice to see you. So we have our priorities.

So that’s the thing, from habit, from being here for so long these priorities are so strong. That’s why there are so many rules to control that. We think, oh, it’s controlling me, it’s not me, it’s not allowing my freedom, it’s not my expression. All it’s doing it’s trying to control all those things. Because otherwise the tendency is we’ll get so absorbed in our little freedoms and our little expressions of ourself of I and mine that we forget the reality of Krsna. That’s the point.

Because it’s like, let us say in a jail, you are in a prison and there is so many restrictions and you think this is cramping my style, and you think that by being able to move around more freely in the prison that you are actually expressing your identity as opposed to not being in the prison, being outside in the free world and being able to move around that according to your needs. So it’s much greater, so therefore then these things will be given.

Just like a child sometimes doesn’t understand the restrictions of the parents, because they want to be free and do whatever they like. But the parent knows better that you are going to grow up one day. So therefore that’s addressed that. So the idea is going back to Godhead is this prominent thing.

So what we are dealing with is the mind doesn’t understand this. Why would we be getting into this? Because they say this is psychology. Why would we be going into this? Because the basic principle, the underlying, if you take it that definition of insanity is not being able to see things as they are. So taking the material world as real, your illusion is real and the spiritual nature not, that means you are crazy. So we are starting from the principle, I guess you could say it’s a Freudian principle, that everybody is basically crazy. So maybe that’s why he only studied crazy people. He is not known for studying normal people. You never hear of any survey that he did where he studied normal people. He only studied crazy people. So you could get a reflection of that, maybe he was right, because everyone in the material world is crazy. So that’s one thing.

And the other thing is that craziness or that illusion then the difference between being workable crazy and clinical crazy is one’s attachment. That’s actually you increase the attachment to the point of unworkableness that is called clinical. So we can understand that these two things, one’s illusion about one’s position, you think you are Napoleon Bonaparte or something like that, that’s the popular one, or you are attached to something to the point of insanity. So you correct these two, you are not in illusion, you are not attached in the way that’s not workable, then you are not crazy. So that’s why then so much detail is put into this.

Because this is basically what they are dealing with, your psychologist is dealing with how to make somebody be able to function normally in what they call normal society. But basically they are just trying to get you to be workable crazy. But the Vedic is to get you to be not crazy, you are actually cured of your insanity. Means what is it, from clinical insane to eccentric, I guess that’s the modern. But the Vedic is to get to the point of actual being situated properly.

That’s why there is not really any difference between Vedic psychology and the Vedic philosophy or the Vedic culture, because they are all trying to do the same thing. Ayurveda is trying to do the same thing, astronomy is trying to do the same thing, they are all doing that, so they are all working, so it will sound very familiar. But technically in this then we get into things that we may not always look at.

Because most of the time, means if it’s always remember Krsna, it’s obvious this it’s Krsna consciousness. But if it’s how to get out of the material energy, to some degree we know, oh, if you are attached it’s maya, and don’t get absorbed in your senses that’s maya and all these different things like that.

Like I just heard a good one yesterday, some devotees were going to do some special thing cook for the deities. And then someone came up with the idea, so maybe we should book the maha plate, so afterwards we can taste and just see if the cooking went nice and this and that. And then one of the group said, don’t be attached, don’t be lusty, this is nonsense, you can’t book the plate. It’s just like ok, but the point is you are cooking for Krsna, it’s also service check afterwards. But no, if it’s anything to do with the senses it’s got to be maya.

So this very simplistic idea of Krsna consciousness works very nicely if it’s always remember Krsna. But if it’s used in the place of never forget Krsna, it becomes a social disaster. Because if you complicate always remember Krsna, then that’s a difficult. But the never forget Krsna, that’s the place where you get distracted. So that’s really where you have to know exactly what’s wrong.

It’s not that the senses are there, you are not going to function…, means you are sitting in this class hearing this knowledge using your eyes and your ears, so using senses and the mind, you are not using something else. So it’s a matter of distinguishing.

So here it’s pointing out, these transformations created from the mode of passion. What does that mean? These transformations are coming because the living entity desires them. The living entity wants to be the controller and enjoyer. But the facility for that is not available in the spiritual world. So it’s created in the material world. Now Krsna has created everything according to His interest. So basically it’s non-different from Him, and so He will function very nicely in moving through this. Because He is the controller and enjoyer, in other words, He is the support of everything created. Then within that what’s created, then the created has variety, it does things. Because being conscious its nature is to always be adjusting, moving, doing something. So then that interaction then Krsna gets pleasure from.

So we are seeing that point of pleasure. What we are not seeing is the basis of that pleasure. Krsna is enjoying with His devotees in the spiritual realm, He is the center of attention. So we see that, so that’s what we like. He is the controller, He is enjoying. We like that, that’s the part we take. What we don’t see is all of that is created by Him and maintained by Him. And that in His control, His control is being under the control. By being under the control of His devotees that’s how you control it. Means mother Yasoda and them they tell Him to dance, He dances for them, that’s how He controls them.

It’s just like in the Vedic marriage ceremony by Gopala Bhatta Goswami, then in there, one of the blessings that the husband gives is, he is talking about his own family, be the controller of my father, be the controller of my mother, be the controller of my sisters and other relatives. But that doesn’t mean she comes in there with her whip and all that and says, alright, we are here. It’s by her affection, by her nice qualities and service you control. So this part is missed by the living entity there. They don’t understand, because they are not male. So there is a projection of what is male, but it doesn’t really work very good.

Like it’s very interesting, you see little girls playing, and then they become the king or the ministers and all that. Therefore they play a male role. But when they play that male role it’s really overemphasized, it’s really melodramatic. They get up there, and yes and this, and do all kinds of things like that. So that’s what we do, because it’s not.

So here that’s why if we talk about always remember Krsna. Krsna is nice, He is sweet, He is out dancing with the gopis, He plays His fruit, flute… He plays His fruit, picks up a tala fruit. Mangoes they really make great sound. That or maybe it’s the old guys, the old fruit… So that part makes a lot of sense to us, very directly. So direct devotional service, bang, immediately we understand. That’s very easy to catch.

But this other part of actually pointing out how we are not God that part bewilders us. Because one, we don’t know what God is anyway, and then we got our own false idea of what it means. So then when we get into this, this starts to get really funny for us. Because we are working on this, it works very nicely, it’s common thing and it’s used in the Vedic culture, but there is a lot more going on, so it doesn’t become the prominent element of the evil element in the society. But in the West, or your world religions, non-Vedic, then the evil element becomes very prominent, the devil and all this kind of thing like that.

So this thing of maya being the one that is doing everything. No, she is not doing anything. Our mess is created by ourself. So we want to enjoy this material energy, we want to enjoy, control and enjoy, so material energy is given to us. So then we then within this try different things. Why the variety? The feminine nature needs the variety, so we have to have that. So then here but it’s generated by someone else. This is still the part we are missing. This is the illusion that even the material manifestation that we are picking and choosing from to control and enjoy is still being generated by the purusa, by the male.

The spiritual realm everything is generated by Krsna. Within that then the devotees make all the decisions, they want to do this, they want to do that, and then Krsna responds with them. The cowherd boys want to play leap frog, He does that with them. They want to play some other game, He does that with them. But He has created that ground on which they are running, He has created the bael fruits that they are playing with, He has created the wells that they are shouting into and saying all kinds of funny names.

So in the same way, even though we are claiming to be the controller and enjoyer the material energy and the options that we can control and enjoy are still created by Krsna. This is where the illusion comes, we don’t recognize that. So therefore it says here, Although thus not existing in reality, means the illusion of not understanding the connection, this manifestation of transformations created from the mode of passion appears real because the self-manifested, self-luminous Absolute Truth exhibits Himself in the form of the material variety of the senses, the sense objects, the mind and the elements of physical nature. So anything that you see here that you want to control and enjoy the only reason it seems real is because it’s Krsna. The dead matter is dead matter. But Krsna as the universal form from the primary creation has entered it. That’s why the first hymn in each of the four Vedas is Purusa-sukta, because everything else is based on that. And the Purusa-sukta is about the primary creation, how Krsna has entered into everything.

Because the point is in the beginning there is nothing. There is nothing to sacrifice. All these primordial sages get together before the creation to have the yajna, but there is nothing to sacrifice, so they take the Lord to sacrifice Him. Because He is substance, so when they bring Him to the sacrificial arena then He expands into everything in the universe.

So everything you see both on the mental plane, the physical thing, the sense, the sense object, the experience of that sense, it’s all Krsna. That’s why it seems real. That’s why when you eat something that that taste you get you feel it’s real. But that apply you ate is just dead matter. But it’s because Krsna has entered it as that taste then that’s why you think it’s real. You smell something, it’s because Krsna is in there, that’s why it’s real. That’s the whole point.

There isn’t anything else other than Krsna. To think anything other than that, that’s illusion. This is the hard part. Because we just want to go, maya – Krsna, we take Krsna, we don’t bother with maya. But at the same time, we don’t get all fanatic about at other place, and we can get also involved in it and everything and be Krsna conscious. But while we are involved we are not thinking about Krsna at all.

So how are you going to deal with your material attachments unless you understand Krsna is in it? Because the only way to elevate yourself is connecting something to Krsna. So unless you can connect your senses and your mind and your needs and desires to Krsna, there is no way, shape, or form you are going to progress in the realm of never forget Krsna.

That’s why, the question comes up, well, how can somebody be advanced, at the same time do so much nonsense? That verse is also coming up here. Because they are many times advancing in always remember Krsna, but not necessarily in never forget Krsna, or they are progressing in a certain area of never forget Krsna, but not in another. They may work on their attachment to the family, but their attachment to position remains, or they are working on the attachment to position, attachment to family remains. But something is going, but progress is there. So we get into this nice black and white. There is good and there is evil, there is God there is the devil, and so therefore you are fully Krsna conscious or you are a complete write-off bozo, and we are being nice about it. So these are problems.

So this is what mataji was saying, that grey area that’s when now we are addressing, and that’s the part that’s painful. Because then if what I am attached to, I am attached to, let’s say, my child, ok, but that means that child is made out of dead matter, what’s there to be attached to? The soul leaves, you are not attached. So the point is that experience you are getting, that perception of childness, that experience that you get of the interaction between parent and child, that’s all Krsna, not the dead matter. The illusion is to think, it’s my child is giving me so much pleasure. But it’s not. It’s Krsna in the form of the energy of this child that gives me pleasure.

So as soon as that’s brought in now we are not dealing with illusion. Now being in a state of not in illusion, now what are you going to do with it? So that means basically then you have to look at, if the childness here is Krsna, then I have to deal with the child as Krsna wants to be dealt with as a child. So what are the rules of that? And therefore since you have taken responsibility of dealing with this particular dead matter in the form of a child, it’s Krsna’s dead matter, He can take care of it very nicely, but you have taken responsibility, so therefore you have duties.

So you perform your duty. That’s what Krsna says first in the Gita. Then with knowledge, you understand what you are dealing with. Then for Krsna, that you are doing this to please Krsna. Remembering Krsna, then it brings it back to Krsna as a person. So this is more internal working of those things. Otherwise, yeah, we have heard it before, do your duty this that bla bla bla, yeah, we have heard that. But this is what it means. This is not something for new bhaktas. New bhaktas don’t see that the experience they get from being with their child, or with their husband, their wife, or going on a vacation, is Krsna. That’s meant for as we become more developed, more advanced. So that’s what Krsna keeps coming back to, because these are the common things.

In the beginning, ok, we just perform the duty. Ok, I take care of my family. But here we are talking about the interaction. The part that everybody wants, but everybody is afraid of. That’s also the best part, the part that we want that’s what we are afraid of. You want to deal with the child, then deal with it right, fully deal with it. No, I only want to deal when I want to deal. That’s cheating. You want to deal with the child, you take the full responsibility. You don’t want to deal with the child, don’t get married, don’t have kids. Very easy.

So even the element that we are saying we need the relationships and you sannyasis don’t understand and all these kind of things. No, the grhastha is the one who doesn’t understand. The sannyasis may also not understand, that’s also. But the point is nobody is understanding. Because if it’s Krsna then how you are only dealing with it part time? How is it you are only dealing on your terms when you want? No, so what are the duties? You can’t make them up, you are dealing with Krsna, you can’t make up your own religion. I mean you can try, some people do, very popular these days. But it’s not going to get you love of Godhead. So that’s why Krsna says, favorable. That service must be favorable. So it’s natural steps you are going through. In this way anything that you have in your world, everything is actually Krsna and can be connected to Krsna. There is nothing that can’t. This idea that only these things can be connected, these things can’t be connected, that is illusion, that is maya, that is atheism.

Devotee (2): Apparently you approach the whole as you really elaborated from the positive, let’s say from the always remember Krsna. But let’s say in this other formula behind to never forget Krsna in the conditioned state. In this other state, in the perfect state, I see the matter and… So that’s its illusion…But from the standpoint of view of the Mayavadi of the impersonalist, he also says that he rejects matter as not real. Could you elaborate please how this matter from the Vaisnava point of view is real because we don’t reject in the sense of the material world as being real.

Maharaja:  We started in the beginning with this element of real and not real. As we mentioned before, you have this parinamavada and vivartavada. Parinama, that’s us? Yes. So parinama means transformation. That’s why this word transformation is always used. Because one aspect of energy is transforming into the next into the next into the next, but it’s all real. The transformation exists, it’s actually there. This table is actually here. Now what I think about this table, my values about this table, if it’s in connection to Krsna, it’s real, if it’s not in connection to Krsna, it’s illusion.

The Mayavadis in vivartavada they just say it’s all an illusion, actually nothing exists, and we in our illusion create it. So they have taken trying to be God to another step, they are addressing this element that God has created everything, so they are saying, I am creating everything, but it’s an illusion, it doesn’t exist. That pillar is not actually there, you just think it’s there. It’s amazing how everybody in this room thinks it’s there, even the bugs think it’s there, they go and land on it. So it’s a very strange philosophy, really trying hard to be God.

What you are dealing with, the child exists, the parent exists, the relationship exists, the duties towards each other exist. What’s the illusion is that you don’t see Krsna in it. That’s actually all it is. Krsna consciousness is very simple. It’s connected to Krsna, then it’s real, it’s pious. It’s not connected to Krsna, it’s not real, it’s impious.

Yudhisthira Maharaja’s chariot touched the ground because he wouldn’t lie for Krsna. All moralists standing with their rock at the wall ready to throw it at the person who has made the sin should take heed at this one. Because it’s whether it’s in connection with Krsna or not that makes it real or not, nothing else. It doesn’t matter, you get together 1000 moralists, still they are all in illusion. 1000 people into justice, 1000 people into the form and rituals of varnasrama but not seeing in connection to Krsna, 1000 people that are into liberation but nothing in connection to Krsna, they are still in illusion. And the most difficulty of all, 1000 people into their senses not in connection are still in illusion.

So notice here, of the variety, so that’s senses, sense objects, the mind and the elements of physical nature. We always look at creation, physical nature. But here we are dealing with the senses, sense objects, and the mind. That’s why we are dealing with the psychology, the subtle aspect of it that generally we avoid. Because the difficulty is if my child is Krsna and that experience I am getting from the parental energy interacting with the child energy is Krsna, then what’s wrong with me enjoying it? It’s not a problem. But are you enjoying it in connection with Krsna? So the illusion or the maya is it’s not in connection with Krsna. Even you recognize it’s Krsna, still you try to enjoy it separately from Krsna, that’s an illusion.

So that’s why just having that intellectual understanding and then making a this is a more intellectual way of rationalizing one’s maya. Now it’s just, we are being practical prabhu, or get real prabhu, or you swamis don’t understand. Then you can get into, no, but it’s Krsna. But that’s what we see here the Hindus, you never bumped into the Hindus? Oh, the baby is Krsna, he is God. Like that, so you have to take care. I have seen it so many times. So they are understanding a little bit more. But still they are in illusion. They are in a nicer illusion, because they think the baby is God, so they are taking care of God very nicely. They don’t get out the cigarettes and everything and burn him and stuff. So they take care very nicely. But still they are in illusion. But they are in a little bit nicer illusion, because they have more knowledge.

But we are talking about going beyond illusion to the point of Krsna consciousness. That means through your attachment to whatever you are attached to you can become liberated. This is the real part that no one wants to buy. That means by being attached to his family he can become liberated from the material world, I guarantee, no brahmacari and sannyasi is going to buy this one. Because it’s grhasthas are nonsense, write-offs and all that. But it’s a fact. But it’s not going to get you love of Godhead. That’s where it falls a little short. You can’t say, ok, this is the complete thing, this is my Krsna…, no, this is the never forget Krsna. What are you doing about always remember? That is the direct aspects, the hearing, the chanting, remembering, serving the deities, associating with the devotees, being in the dhama, that is going to get that side. So that’s the prominent. But because we are so distracted and we are not doing that. We come to the temple once a year on Janmastami night for prasada and I am great devotee. So those other 364 days and 22 hours then that is a problem, because that’s the part where we are always forgetting Krsna.

So this system can connect all that, and as we connect it, it becomes purified, there is less problem. Then the aspect of being able to remember Krsna becomes more easy. One is more inspired to chant and associate with devotees and take part in the festivals, because what’s distracting you isn’t taking you away from Krsna.

Devotee (3): I wanted to ask about the consciousness when we are having relationship and dealing with people in a Krsna conscious way. Because they have their own free will and their understanding, so it’s really easy to make mistake.

Maharaja:  That’s the fun. Wouldn’t it be nice if everybody just did what you wanted them to do?

Devotee (3): I would like to get some advice on this, how to actually have a good attitude, to remember Krsna in those…

Maharaja:  How to remember Krsna? The thing is to remember Krsna you have to be conscious. So the first thing is being conscious. So the difficulty in relationships much of the time that we run into then is that we are not conscious. We go into a situation in a relationship with an idea of what we want to get out of it, rather than actually what the situation is. So that means we go into a situation in the mode of passion, means we are in the future. We are dealing with the situation already as we have gotten the results we want. So how will you actually have a relationship? Because a relationship is in the present, not in the future or the past, it’s right now. So that means you have to be conscious of the present and what is the other person doing right now, and then respond to that.

Devotee (3): Yes, but sometimes even if we do that, the other person is doing something and it is so easy to…

Maharaja:  But this so easy, the so easy means what? The so easy means 1/11 of a second. That’s what you are supposed to be dealing in. If you are dealing in any bigger time span than 1/11 of second you will make a mistake, it will go wrong. You are not dealing in the moment. A moment is 1/11 of a second, that is the present. The present is the size of 1/11 of a second. That means you are aware of everything, when you are talking and this and that, you are noticing everything, the moods, the aspect, everything about what’s going on, and so therefore you are using the appropriate language, appropriate conversation, tone of voice everything like that, and if you don’t…

That’s the thing, the responsibility. You want it to work that the other person just go, there is some easy trick, there is never an easy trick. It’s all work. So because of the mode of ignorance we are lazy, we don’t want to work. The spiritual world they are people who are not lazy, therefore they are given bodies that don’t get fatigued, don’t get hungry, don’t get thirsty, because they are willing to work 24/7. Because relationship means interaction, there is no such thing as non-interaction. That is a thing.

You have a pair of shoes, you like these shoes, they are special, but they sit in your closet until you want to interact with them. Then you get them out and they are all special, and then you put them back in the closet and don’t wear them again for three months. So it works very nice if it’s dead matter. But even then what you like about it is still Krsna, the experience that you get, the aesthetics of it, the reactions it gets from others, that’s still Krsna, but we are not recognizing that.

So we want to do the same thing with people. They should respond and act just like dead matter. When I want to put in the energy, then they are there and interacting with me when I want on my terms. And when I don’t want, then they should somehow or another be in some kind of neutral state or somewhere else doing something else and keeping themselves busy and I don’t have to give any energy. That’s the problem it’s laziness. We are looking at everything as dead matter, we associate with dead matter so much we become like that. And we expect everyone is going to respond. No, they are a sentient living entity that you have to work. It’s work.

That’s why Arjuna wants to go to the forest to just do nothing, and Krsna is saying, no, you got to work. You are going to do it anyway. You are going to work but it’s going to be on your terms. So you do it on your terms you stay in the material world. You work on Krsna’s terms you get out of the material world, you go back to Godhead.

So that’s the thing, relationship means responsibility. And if you are not willing to take responsibility, you don’t enter relationships. That’s why modern management is so popular, because there is no responsibility. You have authority, but no responsibility. But that means it’s an impersonal forum. The cooperate forum is you have authority, but no responsibility.

So that’s how we deal in the modern in relationships. Means where do you hear things of you have a family, your commitments to the family, the family is the most important thing, the greatest gift in the world is family, and without family you have nothing, and all your identity is family? Where do we hear that? So we hear this in the First World? No. You hear this in the Third World. And they are have more better working relationships, because they take responsibility of relationships. I am in this family, therefore I have a duty to this family. So it’s not just me, it’s the whole family values, what grandpa, grandma, whoever is the head of the family, says. But First World, you are cut free, do whatever you like. Grandma, your old man is in the nursing home, so hey.

So this whole thing of responsibility is not there, even though they claim to be. They are very authoritative the modern culture, but it is totally irresponsible. While these Third World countries are very responsible, but the problem is their control is not very great. But as they have learned the techniques of the modern then you see, this Third World is taking over and after a while, it’s like in California and Los Angeles, those that are from a white cocasion background can actually apply in the schools to create a minority club, and they are still in illusion going on thinking that they are the lords of the world. When it is very obvious that the Asians and others are taking over real fast.

So it’s a very, very inferior culture. Economically it’s very good, it’s a bourgeois culture, that’s what it was. The Bourgeois in France took over, they killed the king. The Bourgeois in Russia took over, they killed the king. And all times the Bourgeois taking over and getting rid of authority, and then taking their own authority. And what’s the basis? Economics. They want to move up, the noble caste and the aristocracy is enjoying, they want that. So then they make politics by going to the mass, because they only have money, they go to the mass, they get the force that they can take over the nobility in that.

So it’s a bourgeois culture. It’s only good for economics, bas. It’s not for anything else, it has no concept of relationship. So because of this, no one is trained in it. And no one is trained to take responsibility.

So that means you want the relationship to work, you got to take responsibility to make it work. Don’t say, oh, but what about the other person? Don’t worry about the other person. You can’t control the other, you can control your own mind and senses how you deal in the relationship. It’s their business, it’s their duty to take care of them. But whether they deal nice or not, it’s your…

The child is behaving nicely, the child is being a total brat, the parent has still the responsibility. It can’t say, when my kid’s nice I am the parent, and when they are not, hey, I don’t know him. It’s like child welfare come and knocking on your door if that’s your attitude.

So that’s the whole point, you take this, you’ll find all your relationships improve immediately. You take the responsibility to make it work from your side how you can to the best of your ability, you find all your relationships improve that moment.

Devotee (3): Does that mean that the spontaneous acting has to be… because we have to monitor all our actions and…

Maharaja:  Spontaneity has to be monitored.

Devotee (3): …

Maharaja:  That’s the beginning. See now it’s very important here, how why is this important? This comes up, this is a very, very actually important point of this need of spontaneity.

The masculine it’s not seen so much of spontaneous, it’s just being your own man. In the feminine it comes out as spontaneity. It’s the same thing. So it’s actually a very important element, the need to be able to be spontaneous. Because regulated, restricted then translated as boring. And that’s why basically no one wants to be restricted, because they think it will be boring, and because you are that, your experiences will go down and so you are not what you could do to fulfill yourself, your own needs will not be addressed. And therefore that’s why we stay away from Vedic culture and anything that actually controls us.

But here the point is, Krsna says, act in knowledge. So we see from the Vedic method of study and learning that you hear something, that’s sravanam, that’s the first stage. The second stage is you contemplate it and practice it. So that stage of practicing, yes, it’s controlled by what you know. But with time you become actually good at it. And when you are good at it that’s where spontaneity naturally comes up. If you don’t know what you are doing, where is the spontaneity?

Means the person doesn’t know anything about dancing, or let’s use another one because that doesn’t work so much for us, let’s say music. They don’t know music, you tell them, be spontaneous, make some music. What are they going to do? They are going to do some really stupid. Now then they know some music, then they can only kind of do what they do. So you say, hey, do something, then they’ll do the same thing every time. But now they really know music, then they can improvise and do anything, and it’s perfectly within the parameters of music.

So it’s by knowledge and practice that spontaneity comes. This is what the sahajiyas don’t know. Unfortunately this is also what the Americans don’t know, they think anything that restricts then I won’t be happy. No, you want to be happy, you have to restrict it, bring it in line and practice it until you know the field so well that then you can be spontaneous, then… So the same in devotional service, raganuga-bhakti is based on vaidhi-bhakti. You don’t practice vaidhi, you are not going to get to raganuga. It just doesn’t happen. Raga means that you are so practiced at it, now the spontaneity comes out.

So the point is you have to restrict it, means that you have to restrict it, means you don’t know much about the field, so it means you don’t know the relationships, that’s why it seems it’s a restriction. But if you actually understand the relationship, you understand this is what is going to get that spontaneous interaction I am dying for and everybody around me is dying for, but they refuse to accept the process.

It’s like saying, I want to be able to read this book. Ok, sit down here, a, b, c. No, I don’t want to be restricted, I just want to read the book. That’s what we are hearing. And they say this with real attitude in their 3P suits in their limousines. And then we read their self-help books and do the same thing. So it’s just ignorance. 

So that’s what’s being pointed out here, it’s absolute total ignorance and illusion to think that the thing is not connected to Krsna and that there is not a process given by Krsna that you can follow and attain perfection. And if you think you are going to make it up yourself and it doesn’t come from Krsna you are in illusion, that’s it. It’s that simple.

So here is being given then the process of it. So this one thing if that’s accepted then we can go to this level of understanding the mind. Because you have to understand the mind is dealing with the senses and sense objects, that’s all it does. So unless you actually understand the senses and sense objects in connection to Krsna you can’t actually understand how to bring the mind to Krsna consciousness.