Vedanta Psychology - 6

Maharaja:  Continuing from yesterday, page 41:

Although thus not existing in reality, this manifestation of transformations created from the mode of passion appears real because the self-manifested, self-luminous Absolute Truth exhibits Himself in the form of the material variety of the senses, the sense objects, the mind and the elements of physical nature. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.28.22)

So the whole means the point, summary from here, these manifestations that we see here in this world technically even though they are existing, they are not real. The lack of reality is because we are not actually seeing them for what they actually are. The reality is they are Krsna. So because of that they appear to us to be real. But in reality they are not real. Because reality is you see it as Krsna. You don’t see it as Krsna, you are seeing illusion. You see Krsna, you are actually seeing reality. But even you don’t see Krsna, the reason the illusion seems real because Krsna He is the manifestation of that illusion.

So the whole point is it’s just Krsna. If you are Krsna conscious, you recognize it’s Krsna, so you are very happy being absorbed in Krsna. If you are not Krsna conscious, you are still seeing Krsna, that’s why you think it’s something nice. But you don’t know it’s Krsna, so that’s the illusion. You think it’s the material energy that’s attractive.

So in any case, the devotee, the materialist, they are dealing with Krsna. Of course, this completely blows out off the water that we are a bunch of little band of madmen and we are just sitting in this little corner and we are just cowering, because the karmis may not think what we are doing is very nice.

The whole point is it’s all Krsna anyway. That’s all there is. So this fear means we are not identifying ourself as servant of Krsna. Because if you identify yourself as servant of Krsna there is no fear. The term that one must become fearless. Fearless means you identify yourself as servant of Krsna, that’s what it means. Because if you identify you are fearless.

You are identifying with the field of activities and therefore thinking that you are a funny little part of it. I am sitting here in this field of activities, walking through this mall here around the corner from Alachua and therefore I look weird, because other people in the field think I look weird. So you have identified as matter, that’s why you are afraid. If you identify I am servant of Krsna, what’s there to be afraid of?

Everything everybody is looking at is Krsna anyway. They think, the guy is sitting over there with shades on act being really cool is something attractive, but that is Krsna. That coolness is Krsna, that togetherness, that not being needy, is Krsna. But they don’t know it’s Krsna. They think it’s the guy there with his Rayband’s sunglasses, but it’s not. It’s Krsna’s potency.

So that’s the thing. That’s how Prabhupada can go anywhere with confidence, because Krsna is everywhere. It’s not that He is just sitting there in the temple, and when you go out then it’s maya’s place and she is in charge. No, it’s still Krsna’s place. Just in the temple we are allowed to take part in running it, Laksmiji runs the place, we can assist, and outside maya runs the place, because no one is interested in serving Krsna through Laksmi, so therefore then maya runs it. But all it is is Krsna, there is nothing else. That’s reality, anything other than that is illusion. It’s that simple.

So then taking this then a step further, because we have the element, the non-different between Krsna and His energy. Just like we have this rock. What is this?

Devotee (1): A rock.

Maharaja:  A rock. Ok, now let us turn it around, what is this?

Devotee (1): The back of the rock.

Maharaja:  Yes, but is it the same rock?

Devotees: Yes.

Maharaja:  So it’s a rock. So that means the Lord and His energies are non-different. So now we are going to see the other side. So we thought that one was weird, now it gets more fun. Now this is Bhagavatam 6.19.13:

Mother Lakñmé, who is here, is the reservoir of all spiritual qualities, whereas You manifest and enjoy all these qualities. Indeed, You are actually the enjoyer of everything. You live as the Supersoul of all living entities, and the goddess of fortune is the form of their bodies, senses and minds. She also has a holy name and form, whereas You are the support of all such names and forms and the cause for their manifestation.

So now we are taking it a step further. Ok, now we were dealing with the Brahman aspect, that Krsna has entered everything, it’s all His, whatever manifestation you see is Him. That’s the Brahman aspect. You don’t see really the interaction. It’s just these energies are interacting with each other.

So now we take it a step further, actually all the forms and everything that you are dealing with, the manifestation here, that’s Laksmi. Krsna is the support of that. That’s how He is the creator, He is the support of the created, but it’s Laksmi. And so therefore then He is the enjoyer of everything, because it’s Laksmi. So He doesn’t deal with material energy. Because material energy is our concept. It’s just Laksmi. There is superior manifestations of Laksmi, there is inferior manifestations. So this is inferior. In the spiritual world, that’s superior.

Because it’s all there, Radharani is there, she expands, her sister is Ananga-manjari, and Ananga-manjari is Vrndavana, she is the dhama. They are people. So she is there doing her pastimes, but at the same time, everything that you see is also her expansion. So in the same way, everything that you see here, all the inanimate forms, all the animate forms, all the minds, the senses, everything that you see and interact with, that is all her expansion. And just as in the spiritual world, the spiritual world has expanded, created an environment for the Lord’s pastimes, this place is also the same way. So just because we can’t see it doesn’t mean that’s what’s not going on. And to not be able to understand this or appreciate this, means you understand it, appreciate this, this is deism, that God is something else and this is something else separate from God. So it is atheism.

So that’s the whole point, it is Him. That’s where it gets grungy. It’s not grungy that God is this, it’s grungy that you are trying to enjoy this. The problem is not that God has come as everything you see here, the problem is you are trying to enjoy that. That’s the reality. That’s the stark reality. The living entity is trying to enjoy what is the interaction between Laksmi and Narayana, and not see Laksmi-Narayana and claim I am Narayana and I am the controller and enjoyer and all this is mine. So Laksmi is mine and I am Visnu. This is the problem, not that Krsna has become everything, He is everything in the spiritual world.

Krsna is there playing in the…all the different things are there. Lord Caitanya has a pastime that He is the old pots. From eating all the clay pots are thrown in the garbage pile, and then He has somehow or another come to the conclusion that everything is all one, so He is sitting in the garbage pile. And Saci mata is saying, why are you sitting there? Because it’s all the same, it’s all manifestations of the same thing, so what does it matter whether you are sitting here or there? The pot inside, the pot outside it’s all the same thing. You break the pot, it all becomes one. So she then says, yes, but there is a difference in manifestation, and therefore they have their effects. Because eternally there is this relationship of God and His creation.

So to have that pastime means there has to be pots. So how are those pots manifested? Are those pots maya? Or are those pots Laksmi? He is having His pastime in His dhama in the spiritual world, what are those pots?

Devotees: Laksmi.

Maharaja:  Yes, it’s part of His pastime. It’s not Dhenukasura who thinks he is separate from the Lord, that’s maya. That’s Laksmi in the form of the external potency. He is pots, garbage. So don’t think all the garbage in your house isn’t still Krsna’s potency. That’s the idea.

So here this is how any time, any place anything can be connected to Krsna. So we see all this thing of being real prabhu and just being practical and getting into our puritanical moralism and all these different kind of things, they are just all 100% just atheistic nonsense. That’s all. Because you think it’s separate from Krsna. That’s the whole point. You think it’s separate from Krsna.

This concept of eternal damnation, that means you are thinking that there is something separate from Krsna. Otherwise how to you come to this point? The point is someone is in maya, put him back in the fire of Krsna consciousness, they are fire. But eternal damnation means it doesn’t matter how much you put him in the fire and throw some extra petrol on top they will never become fire again, because they are something separate from God. And I can perceive that, and I am in control of that. In other words, what’s separate from God I am in control of. So if we actually look at this, what is separate from God in this Western religion? That’s Satan. And who is in control of this hell? Satan. So therefore if you see something separate and you are in control of that, what does that make you? 

Devotees: Satan.

Maharaja:  Right, so that’s the point, if you don’t see it in this way you are not using your brains. And if you don’t use your brains you put yourself in a really foolish position. And this foolish position even though we are very proud of it you are still being an idiot. Suhotra Maharaja used to quote from…, does it matter who you are or who you think you are? It’s still the reality.

So that’s what’s going on here, we may not be able to maintain this. At this moment we are hearing this, we are able to see this. So as soon as the class is over, when we go, ok haribol and walk out of here, then everything turns back into its regular dirt and trees and everything else sitting like that. But the whole idea is being able to see this and being able to understand this, then it puts the mentality more proper, so that we make less mistakes, we are more open to when Krsna consciousness comes to us in whatever form that we are able to take it and use it.

So these are very, very important elements, because we can see this is where the mind is tricking us. This is where the craziness comes in. Because the craziness means it’s a different philosophy. Craziness doesn’t mean we are in pure Vaisnava philosophy of pure Vaisnava understanding and things are going wrong. No. It means we are seeing it differently than pure Krsna consciousness.

So now we have given the Brahman level. This one where we see Laksmiji we are dealing with the, means basically there is an element of the Paramatma but also the Bhagavan it just depends upon whether you are just seeing the Lord, His creation, Laksmi like this, then it’s taking that. But if you are seeing their interaction then the…

Devotee (2): …nearer to you because the mosquitoes?

Maharaja:  Oh no, I am ok. No, I am waving my arms just out of being, it’s just something to do. Thank you very much though, it wasn’t mosquitoes. Sometimes it’s mosquitoes. In other words, if the emotional level is low and we are waving our arms, that’s mosquitoes. Thank you.

So these levels that are open to us this is what’s being offered to us. So the only thing that gets in the way of us seeing like this and making this progression from impiety to piety to Brahman understanding to Paramatma to Bhagavan is our own doubts and misgivings.

Oh, Krsna couldn’t be that. Somebody got divorced, so they are eternally damned. They can’t hold any position or service in the society forever. So what does that mean? That means the holy name can’t purify it. Before you joined you ate cows, you are not going to get rid of that for 2½ generations in your genes, but somehow or another that’s just puff, gone, because we chanted Hare Krsna. But if you join the movement and you make any mistake ever again, you are finished. Where does this come from? Where does this concept come from? It’s not Vaisnava, it’s not devotional, it’s not our philosophy, where is it? It’s Christianity.

Even the Jews are a little bit more broad than this. The Old Testament everybody did something wrong, I think except maybe Abraham. But I think other than him everybody did some really bad thing. The Wailing Wall, the most sacred place for the Jews that’s the Temple of Salomon, and then he gets off on somebody else’s wife. Somebody got drunk, somebody did this, somebody did that. Moses he didn’t have faith in the holy name. They still worship Moses even though he didn’t go into Israel. But in the New Testament squeaky clean, squeaky clean, everything immaculate, everything perfect, if anything went wrong then they can’t handle it. Why? Because they are more impersonal. Then you bring it further forward into the Protestant, they throw out all the sadhus, all culture, all everything. So it’s just you and God, that’s it. You and your money, you and your sense gratification. This is why we make rules like this, because we don’t believe in the power of the holy name.

Because the point is here, everything being Krsna that means everything is already in Krsna consciousness, it’s a matter of us seeing it, that’s all, it’s just a matter of us seeing it. Nothing else. So we go on in all these other illusory things and we come up with all these weird cultural phenomenas that we take as normal. Normal for what? For a Westerner. It’s not normal for the Asians, it’s not normal for those from Africa, South-America, anywhere else other than the First World. And therefore we think our imperialistic view is the view. That’s the problem.

So we bring our own non-Krsna conscious baggage into Krsna consciousness, we don’t take up the Krsna conscious culture, then we’ll be tricked. And who is tricking us? The mind. So that’s the whole point of this, it’s the key how to get from non-Krsna consciousness to Krsna consciousness, it’s the mind. But you have to be able to see what the mind is doing, what it’s actually accepting and not accepting, what it’s accepting and rejecting.

So it’s not accepting Krsna is everywhere, because we have our idea, it’s contaminated therefore Krsna can’t enter it. That’s the whole point, Krsna can’t enter it. How many temples that those in the temple they are the Krsna conscious people and those living outside the temple are something less? Ambarisa, he was a strict brahmacari, right? What about Yudhisthira and his brothers? What about any of the great devotees? Narada Muni is a brahmacari, Kumaras are brahmacaris. But this idea is quite universal. You go around our 400 temples how many hundreds of them will think like this? And how many one or two won’t? Why? Because we think that this Krsna can’t enter into that, that Krsna is not all those different things. So this is the problem.

So it’s not just some theoretical philosophy as some will try to make it out to be and that their bourgeois economics is the reality. No. This is the reality and all that is illusion. It’s the illusion you have to deal with, that’s the reality. But the point is you don’t deal with it then you come back and take birth again. That simple. So one has to be able to take these things. It’s not like there is an alternative. It’s God’s creation, it’s God’s laws, you have to follow His laws with an idea to please Him.

So that’s these things are here and are being pointed out to us. That’s His kindness. Because for Krsna it doesn’t matter, we have been here how long? We have done what? I have heard it said that the devotee, someone becomes a devotee after he has already been through all the 8.400.000 species, so that means you have done a lot of nonsense, and somehow or another that can all be purified by the holy name. So the process still goes on even as a devotee, unless, of course, you are a puritan, then it doesn’t go on.

The point is why is the example given of iron and fire? This is not just an arbitrary example. And what is this example of? The example of the absolute. Because we’ll take absolute, it has to be one thing, it can never be anything else. But absolute means it’s in contact with the absolute. So that means everything is in contact. Now it’s a matter of are you aware of that or not. You are aware you are in the fire of the absolute, you are not aware then you are separate.

Because to say you are eternally damned means that you have a situation that is not connected to Krsna, and so what philosophy is that? It has to be Christianity. There is no such thing in Vaisnavism. Jagai and Madhai could be redeemed and they were great brahmanas, high-grade brahmanas that were degraded.

Devotee (3): When you talk about motherness and childness and coolness like that, it seems that these are stripping the jiva of any kind of personality by virtue of fact that all these energies are some kind of abstract metaphysical ideals that are just manifesting through us in some sense.

Maharaja:  Is that a problem? Your blender in your house, is it that plastic and little metal things that is making everything happen or is it the current that is moving through it? You can have a blender sitting there all day, if it’s not plugged in nothing gets blended. So the point is why do you call it a blender? Electricity also goes through the refrigerator, it goes through the iron, it goes through your toothbrush. So why do you call it what you call it?

Devotee (3): Because of its function or its…

Maharaja:  Yes, function or form. So just because the Lord’s potency is making something work doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have that particular flavors and identities. But even that is that the jiva? Was the jiva born in Manhattan? So then what’s the problem of it being stripped of that? So that’s the thing, we can strip it of it and work with it at the same time. The modern concept either you are stripped of it or you have it, and they can’t deal with anything else. They can’t deal with oxymoron, that you have two things that don’t make any sense that match. It’s like saying a romantic Greek drama. They don’t go together. Somebody has to die. There has to be some kind of tragedy.

But the point is the material world is that, you have the soul which is transcendental, you have the Lord and His energies which are transcendental, and all this is being manifest through dead matter, but the forms and everything are created because of the desire of the jiva who is transcendental and through Laksmi which is transcendental. But because the living entity doesn’t see that he thinks it’s something separate from God, therefore he thinks he can enjoy it. Because if it’s God how do you enjoy it?

So it’s very personal the whole thing. That the jiva himself is in this illusion by his own desire. And what is manifesting now is his particular conditioned nature. And it’s just a matter of he can even take that conditioned nature through the material energy and still connect it all to Krsna and see Krsna, and be just as Krsna conscious as if he was taking the spiritual nature and a spiritual form and engaging that in the Lord’s service. Because for Krsna there is no difference.

Is this me? But this isn’t, right? So the hands might see some big difference, but the person who owns the hands doesn’t. My hand is superior, my foot is not, therefore you can step on my foot? No, it’s still me.

So for Krsna His internal potency, external potency it’s all Him. So He can be manifest and interact and experience rasa anywhere in any manifestation. But within that there is superior and inferior.

Someone comes up and a friend goes, pats you on the back, then that has one feeling. If he comes up and pats you let’s say on your chin, it works, ok, but it’s not as good as patting you on the back.

So the material energy, the rasa in the material world between Laksmi and Narayana and their manifestations here it’s their interaction, but it’s only a spark of their real full form in the spiritual world. So it’s rasa, but it is very, very minimal. But for us, we think it’s something very, very special. Because we identify with dead matter so any movement is better than nothing.

If you are sitting there and there is nothing, you can’t see any form of life and that’s it, and suddenly you see a spider walking by, man, you are best friends, wow, hey, they’ll have a whole.

So that’s what’s going on, we have taken the material world, identified with it, therefore any movement in it that’s created by this verse, by the Lord and His potencies, by Laksmiji, then we take that as something special and immediately we are enthused by it. But we are enthused because we are people, and we are enthused by people. The dead matter isn’t enthusing us. That’s the illusion. That’s why we suffer because we think it’s there. And the material energy is temporary, so it’s always going to have a creation, manifestation and a dissolution. So everything that we think is special goes away. But it hasn’t. Because that potency is still there, that interaction between the Lord and His potencies is still going on. So if we recognize that, then we move into the eternal realm. But as long as we think it’s not that, then we think it’s this temporary realm, therefore everything is temporary. It’s very personal.

Like sometimes, there was one letter I read where one devotee is complaining to Srila Prabhupada about another devotee that they are so impersonal, that they are dealing in this way and that way. And Prabhupada says no, it’s because it’s personal that’s why they are dealing that way. Because they are people they are dealing like that, maybe in an unpurified state, so they are being selfish, but it’s because they are a person that they are dealing in this way. Impersonal means what do you care, it doesn’t matter.

So the whole thing is everything is personal. But the problem is it’s all self-centered, that’s what’s unnatural for the jiva. The jiva its nature is not to be self-centered. Its nature is to assist in others’ relationship. So that sense of sacrifice that’s the eternal nature of the jiva. So when that’s accepted then the jiva becomes happy. But we don’t have faith that we’ll be happy by doing that. We feel unless I do something for myself I can’t be happy. But that’s our idea, but that’s not the way we are. We are happy when we are assisting someone else in their happiness.

Otherwise why is it movies and all this is so popular? It’s someone else, it’s not you. So that’s the whole thing, it’s other people, and you get so involved. You read a book, you get so involved. You hear a story, gossip, why do we get into gossip? Because it’s someone else and their feelings and relations. So that’s the whole thing. So it’s all in relationship to others. It’s been misguided, because that’s where the illusion comes in, because we don’t actually understand what we are dealing with. We are handed a cauliflower, we think it’s a lawnmower, that’s the illusion.

Devotee (4): This phenomena of devotees in the Western world, we are feeling insecure and not confident and comfortable wearing devotional dress, because they feel people think they are weird, people think that…, what is this energy?

Maharaja:  That’s maya, because we are not identifying actually as servant of Krsna and what’s going on.

Because if you think you are weird wearing bed sheets, you ask all the parents they think their kids or teenagers are weird for what they wear. And one group of teenagers thinks the other group of teenagers is weird. So everybody thinks everybody else is weird. All it is some are good at keeping it quiet and some are not so good at keeping it quiet. But everybody thinks everybody else is weird. Except for your two or three friends everybody else is weird. It’s just the way it is.

So the point is if you are confident, this is what we wear, what do we care? After a while people accept it. If a priest walks down the street in America wearing his big black whatever it is with his little white collar, does anybody complain, laugh, roll on the ground? No, nobody. The nuns go out looking weirder than our ladies. Funny little skirts and the little things in the hair trying to keep their hair covered and all that kind of stuff. And everybody accepts them for who they are. They have a nice conversation, even respect them. So they respect that order, so they are respected. We don’t respect it, we think it’s something less, therefore no one respects.

Just like if you walk down the street and a dog comes up and growls at you, you just look at him and keep walking. But if you start to run, he will chase you.

So in the same way, you think you look stupid, then everybody thinks you look stupid. It’s just a point. If you are comfortable with yourself, no one else will be uncomfortable.

Prabhupada was comfortable, everybody else was comfortable. No one said, Prabhupada, who is the guy with the funny bed sheets? They only say we are in funny bed sheets, why? Because we think we are in funny bed sheets. And then they do this, then devotees come up with these things, well, it’s Indian, nowhere in the sastra does it say dhoti and all that. We got such great scholars in our movement. We got fabulous scholars in our movement. Prabhupada talks about dhoti where did it come from. Prabhupada doesn’t know what he is talking about? So if the word dhoti is not used, there is only one word for that? There is only one word for this tin can with four rubber tires on it and a steering wheel? There is so many words for it. So there is not words for these?

Have you ever heard of the thing trikaca? Trikaca is another name for a dhoti. Means it has three different sets of folds. So I mean there is so many things there. Oh the sari is not, that’s Moslem thing. The Moslem took up Indian dress when they came here. You go to Mongolia, look at what they wear. You go to Kazakhstan, look what they wear. You go over to Turkey, you look at what they wear. Do they wear what they wear here? No. So when the Moguls came to India they took up the India dress. They modified it how they liked it. They liked the kurtas, they made them a little longer. They liked the collar on the bagal bundi thing, but they didn’t like the bundi aspect of it, they did it for a while, so they kept the collar and then dropped the rest of it, then we call it a Chinese collar. So all these things, they just took what was here and they adjusted it. The music is the same, they just didn’t like all the words about Krsna, so they took that out, so all you hear is aaaahhhh. It’s the same thing.

And then these foolish indologists then they say it’s something else. They are idiots. That’s the whole thing. Means a person who is the head of a department or a scholar in Judaism is Jewish and what they say is in line with their scriptures and in support of it. Someone who is head of Moslem studies is the same. Buddhist studies is the same. Only in indology is atheist of something else and we take it up and sit there licking their shoes and thinking that is special. It’s just nonsense. And then we talk like them. So this is the problem.

They are too intelligent. This is what Prabhupada meant about too intelligent. They are so smart they go into the realm of stupidity. But they don’t understand that stupidity in our terminology is called atheism. So when they profess all this stuff they are professing atheism. And we are not coming in here from the hellfire and brimstone thing, we are coming in here from straight philosophy, straight metaphysics. You can pick it apart and show exactly how it is. So we are just talking fact. It’s not sentiment. So that’s the difficulty.

If there is a need, if it will help the preaching to wear karmi clothes, we are happy to wear them, we couldn’t care less. But to say you can only wear these and no one else, that’s nonsense. Our devotees will go in karmi clothes to one of these, what do you call it, all the religions get together?

Devotees: Interfaith.

Maharaja:  Interfaith thing. And the Buddhists are wearing their Buddhist dress, and the nuns and the priests are in their dress, and we are in karmi clothes. It’s like, that’s just pure unalloyed attachment to their own conditioned nature. That’s all it is. It’s nothing to do with preaching, Krsna conscious, nothing. He just found a nice out for it, that’s all. That’s all.

You stick to your faith, people join. You don’t stick to your faith, who wants to join somebody who is faithless? That’s the thing. People are looking for something in their life. They are not looking for insecurity, they already have that.

So this whole point, Krsna is there in everything everywhere, and there is nothing that’s not Him. So there is not any problem. Why is it you pay, means I have said this so many times, why is it you pay so much money for a model? Just get some guy or girl and they walk down this runway and then they pay them so much. Why? Because they look so fabulous? Some of them look pretty bad. There is nothing there, they say it’s a girl, but it would be really hard to figure out anatomically if it is. Or they say it’s a guy, but that would also be hard to figure out. Why do they pay them? Because they got panache, they got attitude. They put on the most ridiculous outfits that there are and walk down there like this is like perfectly normal. And the people on the side sit there and go, I’ll take ten of those, a hundred of those, a thousand of these. If they just took an ordinary person off the street walk down, they wouldn’t buy anything.

So that’s the whole thing, who wears what they are wearing with confidence that’s what people notice. That’s all. So there is no such thing as really in fashion or out of fashion, it’s a matter of what people wear with confidence. You think it’s in fashion, I wear it with confidence. And I am wearing it every day until the fashion changes and then when others are wearing something else then I feel insecure, then it goes out of fashion. But some people like it, they wear it every day, no one says anything. They are still wearing their old 1940s pleats and their pant stuff and nobody says anything. Why? Because they feel comfortable in it. That’s all it is.

Because they identify, I am these pants, so therefore like that. We can’t do that very good, we are kind of stuck on the middle. But we can identify, I am servant of Krsna, and it will generate more confidence than this other thing.

So these things, the philosophy and the culture you can’t separate them. Because if it’s philosophy without culture it will be speculation. And if it’s culture without philosophy it will just be sentiment.

Devotee (4): Would it be also wearing devotional dresses, just like a police officer he is wearing this uniform he is not going to do something that is against the law.

Maharaja:  Yes, that’s there.

Devotee (4): So similarly a devotee wearing his devotional clothes he is going to be a little bit more…

Maharaja:  He has to be more careful, yes.

Devotee (4): More careful with the material energy and he won’t be going into movies with that dhoti.

Maharaja:  Yes, like that, unless there is a bunch of other devotees going. What is it, Star Wars had so many Krsna conscious elements that the devotees were going to see that.

Devotee (5): The first week in our bhakta program all the bhaktas went to Gandhi.

Maharaja:  Gandhi, ok.

Devotee (4): So what you say is that clothes they are important?

Maharaja:  Clothes are not very important. What’s important is the mentality. That’s what we are trying to get at here. But the point is, it’s a matter of identity. This is a very, very fine point, I have spoken so strongly on this about it, but I am speaking actually not about the clothes, I am speaking about the mentality with which they are worn. That’s the whole point.

In other words, the devotee is wearing a dhoti. Why is he wearing it? What’s his mentality? If he is not wearing it, what’s his mentality? His wearing karmi clothes, what’s his mentality? So that’s what we are talking about. Because we are dealing here with the mind. These others are external manifestations. That’s why it’s difficult many times to catch the points because of this seeing the difference between the subtle and the gross. Means technically the spiritual, the metaphysical, and the physical are all connected. But we tend to see them all very differently.

So it’s like this, the devotee is wearing his dhoti, and because we are devotees of Krsna, but we are special and all these other nonsense rascal dirty filthy scumbags are out here, then that’s nice he has faith, but his faith is polluted by pride. So therefore the karmis won’t appreciate. Or he is wearing his karmi clothes and he is thinking that it’s because you can’t wear devotee clothes and this and that and so we have to wear this, people will see him as insecure, as weak. Or the karmi is identifying, yes, I am this clothes, I look great, this guy brand name stuff, so I am looking good, but they identify with the clothes. So people notice the clothes, but it’s not necessarily they notice the person other than his attitude. If he is able to project enough attitude they’ll notice that. But when they see him they don’t go necessarily, you look great, they’ll say, wow, nice shirt. If he is projecting enough energy and looking comfortable, then they’ll say, you look great. So even the karmis are unknowingly making a differentiation.

So the devotee is wearing this because this is our tradition, this is what we wear. Or he is wearing the karmi clothes because this is what’s going to work for this preaching, so therefore I should look my best at it, but I still don’t identify with it. That’s then what this affords us. Because it’s the Lord’s potencies that are working.  

In other words, clothes are worn by human beings, it’s just part of the human culture. In that it has it looks aesthetic, there is some aspect of practicalness and aesthstics that’s there. So those are potencies. Practicalness is a potency. That it looks good is a potency. Now that is the principle on what it is. So it’s not what you wear.

So the ideal is what they wear in the spiritual world, so that will be your dhotis, saris and all that. You have the opportunity, why one wouldn’t want to wear? Krsna wears, you like to be like who you have appreciation for. But if the situation doesn’t afford that, you wear whatever works.

But the main principle is that it works and it looks good. That’s the bottom line. You have to look like a cultured person. So even you are wearing non-devotional clothes it should be nice non-devotional clothes that reflect the environment you are in. You got an in, you are going to the academy, you wear a tuxedo. That’s what fits the situation. And you better wear a good one, otherwise they think you are an idiot.

So it’s more the mentality of wearing it and how it’s worn that’s more important than what’s being worn. So those who speak that you are wearing a dhoti that’s Krsna consciousness, they have missed the point, but at least they are trying to follow some tradition. Those that say, it doesn’t matter, you can wear whatever you want, we are not from India so we don’t wear Indian clothes. But then you define what’s American clothes? A lot of Americans wear a big huge chain like this. So why aren’t our devotees wearing that? They wear shades at night. I don’t see the devotees wearing that. A couple of them of course. So what’s American? What’s English? What’s French? How is it defined?

So therefore it’s a matter of what is cultured for the situation. So the thing is basically unless the other person has some kind of attitude problem with devotional clothes, devotional clothes work anywhere. They are the most universal of anything. But if the other persons are having a problem.

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Maharaja had a group of persons, or two groups. One group that wore 3P suits with spats, and another group that dressed up, they wore these black turbans, black kind of real puffy kind of like cape things with a little white collar and these, what do they call those, those pants, they are puffy up here and then they are super tight on the legs?

Devotee (5): Jumpers.

Maharaja:  Jumpers, but.

Devotee (6): Plus-fours. 

Maharaja:  Plus-fours, ok, like that. I think they also call it, they may call them chudidars I think, I am not sure. It’s a kind of pants and they are really tight along here, with black shoes. And they would go out presenting things, they would be going. In other words, the guys in suits would go out for getting work done. The guys in the other thing would go out to preach to the British because they would accept that they are the priests. So it was because of the mentality of the British then he used that.

So we don’t have any problem with it. But they never thought that this is ok and devotional clothes are stupid or unnecessary. No, when they needed that they wore that. Just like you take a bath, you put on a gamsha. So if the pants and the polo t-shirt are so important, why are they not wearing them in the shower? Because it doesn’t match. So that’s the thing. So you wear what’s appropriate. So it’s a mentality.

So in other words, this stuff here then is taken into the Lord’s potencies. Because how do you choose what looks good or not? So you take something more towards the sattvika. Otherwise you can go out in your stressed jeans and this and that and look just like something off the street. The reason it’s stressed is because somebody picked you up and rubbed the sidewalk with you that made it clean and stood you back up again, then you go fashion.

So that’s the thing, you don’t look like someone off the street. And if you check, you go to most every temple, when a devotee leaves the temple, goes out on sankirtana, a lot of them look like they are off the street, or they look like they belong in an insane asylum, or they have to be a complete total nerd down the university that doesn’t even notice their clothing. So you tell me how any of those actually fit in? So it’s very few that actually dress that would fit in. I have only seen a couple that really dress good, Balarama, you remember, he used to dress good, Bhavananda, he is…, he looks good. So many people they look good, but very few. Most of them look like you wouldn’t want to be like them because they dress so badly, or they are right off the street so if you were a gentleman you wouldn’t even want to talk to them.

So it’s they are not even catching the potencies that are working here. So that’s the point, you catch the potencies you understand what’s going, so then you dress appropriately. So this philosophy is very, very practical, very practical.

Devotee (7): So you are speaking about the dress should be practical. So while traveling like in an airplane for ten, twelve hours a tri-kaca is not exactly the most…

Maharaja:  Depends on your practice, I wouldn’t go there not with me. I have worn a dhoti everywhere, done everything, and I don’t really…

Devotee (7): A lungi or a dhoti?

Maharaja:  A dhoti, I wear a dhoti for such a long time and I wore it good. I have never seen any reason to not.

Devotee (7): Maybe we need courses on how to travel with devotional clothes.

Maharaja:  That’s the whole…, you need courses on how to wear them and different ways to wear them and stuff like that. It’s a matter you know how to wear it, it works.

Most of the stuff that one would wear in the West is really unpractical for doing. They are always having to pull it up so that the crack in their bum doesn’t stick out, pull it up so the nipples don’t come out and this and that kind of stuff. Very impractical stuff, but they claim it’s so practical. No, it is. It’s practical means people can see your body, they get maybe attracted, maybe you got a shot at finding somebody to live with for the rest of your life.

Devotee (7): If you are moving in and out of a seat, then it’s got these…

Maharaja:  Yes, so therefore it’s called a hand, and when you get up you move your hand like this. When women sit down with skirts they do it all the time.

Devotee (7): Question of practice.

Maharaja:  It’s a question of practice. Everything is a question of practice.

You got a gun in the holster under your arm, it’s a matter of practice to get it through the suit into there, pull it out in a nanosecond and blow the guy’s head off. That’s more practical would be to have it slung across here with a whole thing like that and all the bullets right there, like that. But then that’s a little obvious.

Devotee (7): That went out of style.

Maharaja:  Yes, so it’s not so fashionable these days.

So it’s a matter of practice. Means if you value it, you will practice it where it works. You get on the bicycle, the first thing you do is notice every tree there is between you and wherever you are going and bump into them. But with practice you can do anything. So it’s a matter of clothes or practice. Otherwise Krsna is not so stupid that He’d take a bunch of cows out into a field with a dhoti on if it wasn’t practical, it didn’t look good in practical. So it’s just a matter of practice. You just know that the arm is there, the folds in the back get caught in that, so you know how to deal with it. So it’s just practice.

Devotee (7): Did He also wear pants sometimes? I mean sometimes we dress the deity in dhoti, sometimes the deity is dressed in pants.

Maharaja:  But those pants generally if they are done traditionally they are generally done out of a dhoti. But if are going to wear pants, go ahead, wear those kind of pants. Great. You also have to wear one of those shirts also.

Devotee (7): And the turban.

Maharaja:  Yes, and the turban.

Devotee (7): So you are saying about the devotees who just don’t wear right, no matter whether they are wearing Western dress or they are wearing Indian or Vedic dress or whatever. So it’s a question of being respectable of carrying it with style. So that just really boils down to the personality, because the person’s taste, you cannot argue about taste, you cannot educate people on taste in the same way of dressing. Ok, you can say this is the what we understand as taste or sanity and you should be inside this box otherwise you are not fit for public consumption. But then again everybody has their own choice on how they…

Maharaja:  Their choice, but it’s still is how they wear their choice. Because it’s a matter of how it’s worn and presented. Because in other words, it’s still the mentality. In other words, you are dealing with higher elements here, higher potencies.

The whole idea is, you have your dress, but then there is something behind that. Because the point is, if we simply deal with the physical, what is elevating us? So the physical is based on the metaphysical, and that metaphysical is going in the direction of spiritual. So the whole idea is, you become conscious of what you are dressing, what you are wearing, how you are wearing it, the situation you are in when you are wearing in, then it starts to make sense.

Like you walk along and there is a puddle, you have these nice pants, it’s hard to pull them up, but dhoti you just grab it and it’s up. You can walk through water, no problem. I mean if you can walk on water, that’s even better.

So the whole idea is, it’s creating consciousness, that’s what you are trying to create. Because if you can become conscious of what you are wearing and how you are wearing it, you could become conscious that those principle of what you are wearing and how you are wearing is Krsna, that’s the next step. But unless you are conscious of what you are wearing other than your own personal identity, then how are you going to see Krsna in it? That’s what you are trying to get at, that’s why any aspect can be used. Even if they are wearing some fashionable things that are maybe very strange, but still they have to wear it properly according to the fashion to get that aesthetic potency to flow through it, then it becomes useful. Otherwise it didn’t.

So that’s the point, you are trying to invoke consciousness wherever is your attachments, because that’s what this section is about. This section is about who is behind passion and attraction. So the thing is why we are attracted to wear that kind of pants or that shoe or that shirt or have this kind of couch or that picture on the wall or this kind of treating of our floor or curtains or our bed covers or our pillows, is because of Krsna’s potency of attraction here. It’s actually Krsna, but we don’t realize. So if it’s Krsna, then it’s either I am keeping all these twenty pillows on my bed nicely because I like the look of these pillows, or I just like pillows.

But the point is, what is it what we are dealing with? If Krsna is those pillows, then it’s not I like them looking like this, therefore I keep them nice, that Krsna has come in the form of these pillows and with the potency of Laksmi is that attractiveness or whatever it is and also that form, therefore I need to keep these pillows nicely and looking nice because it’s service to Krsna. So therefore all your twenty little fancy throw pillows have become connected to Krsna. Otherwise they are just being practical and just keeping a nice house like anybody else does, and it has therefore no Krsna conscious content. But the other one is there, and after a while, if it’s Krsna, then it’s like why do I need twenty of them? If it’s my nature, I got to have twenty, then I have twenty. But if it’s not, I simply picked it up, because I saw someone else with twenty of them, then actually it looks nice with only five. So I start reducing my attachments, because I am increasing the quality of how I am dealing.

So you can start with anything, you are going up the stair, in that little landing there is a little triangle table in the corner and on it it’s a little dinky little vase thing and inside is a few little dried flowers. But those flowers should be looking proper, it should be in the vase, the vase should be properly on the table, the table is not sticking out from the corner, it’s sitting there properly. Why? Because it’s Krsna’s potencies. It’s there, because you wanted it. So it’s starting from yourself, but since it’s there, work with it properly, it’s Krsna.

Devotee (7): But to get it there in that shape and style took a lot of effort, a lot of trouble, and a lot of disturbance. So the so-called harmony and peace which is now present which you say one can appreciate as Krsna has cost a lot of effort and headache, so the question is always, what is greater, like in association, the pain or the pleasure which is perceived from it?

Maharaja:  So then that will…it will start to make you conscious, so you’ll start to think about that, and then you’ll start to be more wary about going into boutiques that are in buildings that are leaning more than Pisa to buy stuff, because it might fall over at any time. So then, like you are saying, the trouble it takes, is it really worth it? Because if you are looking at Krsna as aesthetics, do I actually need Krsna in that form of that aesthetic? So then I might not need it, so therefore I don’t have to get the car, go to Calcutta, run around, and do all the different things and all that kind of thing. And then to do that you have to have the money, to do that you have to, all these different things. So it may be seen, I can appreciate Krsna in aesthetics in much less or more simple or more refined or seomthing, and then slowly, slowly it reduces the need, because you are connecting it.

Devotee (7): The reductionist might also tend to some tinge of Mayavada if you are taking out the elaborateness and just making it…

Maharaja:  No, because the thing is, fineness…

Devotee (7): Clear cut.

Maharaja:  It’s not a matter of clear cut is meaning that. It’s a matter of because it’s Krsna, therefore it’s refined.

 Because it’s like you see in, what do you call it, this is really stretching, do you understand where this is going? We are still dealing with this same point, but we are trying to bring it into your house. Because we’ll say, ok, great philosophy and I talk about the pillar, but I haven’t got a pillar in my house, so it doesn’t work. So the whole thing is there, it is going in, you have take Versailles, no one will say it’s stark or Mayavada, but it’s got one room and inside is one pillar and on it is one clock, but it perfectly matches. So you look in an architectural magazine, Better Home & Garden, it says you generally have two kinds of houses, very clean and very few things that are there nicely, but well balanced, or you name it it’s there, millions of things, but they are all nicely placed. In either case it’s one aspect of Krsna, simplicity is a form of beauty, at the same time, the very things are very complex. You take the cauliflower, you steam it, you put some butter and salt and pepper on it, it tastes nice, it’s very simple, but it’s balanced. You take that same cauliflower, cook it with twenty different spices in a nice gravy, and it tastes nice, because it’s balanced.

But the main point is according to your conditioned nature however complex or simple is required, that’s what you use. But the point is, it’s Krsna. It’s not something else. The reason you like it is because it’s Krsna. So therefore since it’s Krsna, start to deal with it properly, you can’t not deal with it… You can’t just throw the pillow in the corner, because if that’s Krsna or Laksmi you don’t do that. You have to respect that pillow and put it properly. So that means everything in your house you have to actually deal with it respected, not it’s mine, I deal with it however I like. No, it’s Krsna, therefore you have to deal with it according to how He likes.